fandomsecrets | [ SECRET POST #5829 ]

[ SECRET POST #5829 ]

⌈ Secret Post #5829 ⌋

Warning: Some secrets are NOT worksafe and may contain SPOILERS.

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Notes:

Secrets Left to Post: 01 pages, 18 secrets from Secret Submission Post #834.
Secrets Not Posted: [ 0 - broken links ], [ 0 - not!secrets ], [ 0 - not!fandom ], [ 0 - too big ], [ 0 - repeat ].
Current Secret Submissions Post: here.
Suggestions, comments, and concerns should go here.

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Spoilers for Sandman and also suicide tw

Out of all Dream's lovers, Thessaly is the only one I loathe. She literally sells him out to his death for more years of life and forgiveness for her own crimes. And, you know, she's a terf.

But I'm not looking forward to the epic flood of Thessaly-hate that'll ensue because she's not Hob or a palatable reader insert, before even getting to the bit where she (and Destiny) say she never loved Dream and was instrumental in making sure he succeeded at stealth suicide-by-Furies.

And even though I am a hardcore Dreamling shipper, it bothers me that her cruelty and even the terf shit would garnish way less vitriol if Dream hadn't built her a wing of his palace, strolled through meadows with her whispering sweet nothings, been desperately in love with her, and probably fucked her on every reasonably flat surface before making it rain for weeks when she left him and then kicking off his death wish farewell tour in the vain hope of finding her again.

Like, she's a bigoted selfish opportunistic murderer who sold out her lover to his death*, that's worse than her being Dream's last canon love interest!

*Yeah I know he mostly set himself up for it, but still.

Same anon—and also terf/transphobia warning.

Oof. I didn't think this through, any mention of transphobes brings them out of the woodwork like termites, doesn't it. Ugh. Maybe this is a bad idea for a secret.

Sorry in advance, Case.

And same anon again jfc it's garner, not garnish argh how did I miss that. Typos and possibly perpetuating another wank storm by our resident bigot trolls ffs I need to go to bed before I manage to stuff both feet in my mouth at once.

Ah yes, all the transphobes in the comments... wait, there aren't any.

They’re talking about all the times transphobes have spread transphobia in the comments before. Do you just choose to selectively forget things that you personally don’t care about? Because there’s evidence of transphobia in the comments even just a few days ago for an HP related secret. Why be so condescending when you’re also so wrong?

Is the character or the actor a terf?

Character. She isn't a good person.
We have no actor yet

Character being a Terf isn't a problem as long as the narrative drive makes it clear they are reprehensible and condemns the view. Actor being a Terf is a problem, because RL has no over arching narrative to punish such repellent beliefs.

Secret OP here and she's not really shown to be reprehensible? I mean, I think she's awful, just based on the terf stuff, and I'm not alone in that.

She's also kind of shitty aside from being a terf, but she does help some (good) people without really expecting a reward. And she weeps at Dream's funeral, although it's hard to say if it's for the part she played in his death, for not loving him, for guilt...

Another anon said the audio drama made her less terfy, and the Netflix show has so far made most of the awful characters (including Dream, the title character who is also awful!) more... idk. Made them softer? Nicer? That's not quite the vibe but it's almost 4:00 am here so I'm not super coherent.

I'm torn on the show maybe making her less terfy because events in the comics show she's wrong, and it's important that she and other transphobic characters are both stood up to and shown to be wrong, but also she's not punished for being a transphobe, or any of the shitty stuff she pulls.

And of course irl transphobes aren't always held accountable for being shitty, but just having her being shown to be wrong without actually facing any consequences isn't very satisfying. But Sandman generally doesn't go in for "all the bad people are punished while the good are rewarded," it's not that kind of story at all.

I feel you.
Although I am a bit on the other side, I am afraid of all "go girlboss" fans. I enjoy her character, because I enjoy bitch characters, but there are a lot of fans who love to excuse female characters to the hell and back. I think discourse is going to be awful.
To be fair, I think they are going to exclude her being terf. At least audio play already made her less transphobic.

AYRT—huh, I'm kind of surprised at the audio drama making her less terf-y. Both because I was under the impression that the audio drama changed basically nothing about the source text that wasn't required by the change in medium, and because I assumed her transphobia was part and parcel of her being an asshole and not something they'd want to tone down. I've heard it's awesome, but I can't do audiobooks.

And I read the comics decades ago and disliked Thessaly well before I saw the Netflix show (and started shipping Dream/Hob, heh.)

When I first read them I wished I was a good enough writer to pull off a Dream/Wanda Wanda lives AU where Thessaly never hooks up with Dream because Wanda got there first.

Only downside is Wanda didn't deserve to watch him self-destruct and I dunno that any lover would be enough to save Dream from himself post Orpheus.

AYRT. Audio is really close to the comics but they still had changes here and there. Desire is they (I think it was changed in later comics editions too though), there is a bit less casual transphobia towards Wanda, so Thessaly reads less transphobic. She is still callous and driven by her pride and revenge.
I don't think I've ever hated Thessaly, I find her a lot like comic!Dream so I am ok with her. All the immortals are a bit awful in Sandman. Saying this I still like the idea of Wanda/Dream. I would watch it

It's been a long, long time since I read it but what made her a terf? I just remember her telling the trans woman she couldn't contribute to the menstrual blood shenanigans because she didn't menstruate which... isn't really terfy, imo. Was there more?
I didn't particularly like that sequence so I didn't pay much attention to it/don't remember it too well.

She called Wanda "a man" and didn't take her through moon way because of it. Probably you can read it more her old magic being sort of... old and not tolerant because all the witches weren't

'Probably you can read it more her old magic being sort of... old and not tolerant because all the witches weren't'

No shit Sherlock.

Da

Oh quit with the condescending bs.

Oh you are anon saying there are no terfs here by being awful to others? Cool

Ayrt
Ah, okay. I didn't remember much of it (other than that I didn't like the witch character and the gravestone scene at the end) so... yeah.

Np! I was rereading some parts so it's fresh (Terfy scene is so ridiculous actually. I mean women don't usually bleed all of the time, even if period is something they have. How lucky Thessaly was to have someone on a period?)

I feel like I recall Gaiman saying this was something he probably wouldn't do if he was writing it today? Did I make that up?

But, if that's the case, I would imagine the adaptation will deal with it differently

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[ SECRET POST #5829 ]

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