[ SECRET POST #5833 ]

[case]

⌈ Secret Post #5833 ⌋

Warning: Some secrets are NOT worksafe and may contain SPOILERS.


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Notes:

Secrets Left to Post: 02 pages, 35 secrets from Secret Submission Post #835.
Secrets Not Posted: [ 0 - broken links ], [ 0 - not!secrets ], [ 0 - not!fandom ], [ 0 - too big ], [ 0 - repeat ].
Current Secret Submissions Post: here.
Suggestions, comments, and concerns should go here.

Comments

OP

[(Anonymous)]

I was wondering if someone would take issue with the way I used the word 'relatable.' You've stated already your opinions about what relatability means to you, so I'll try to clarify my own. To me, in short, relatable means if I sympathize/empathize with the character AND not find them utterly irritating. There are lots of villains in stories that I could say are relatable, or have relatable aspects. My usage of the word relatable is flippant here, but I hope the post that I made to meadow above in the comment thread helps also explain what I mean by I don't really like the main character of Fantastic Mr. Fox.

My main point is that I do not like Mr. Fox or his son Ash for reasons presented in my previous comment to meadow. I find that they mirror a lot of people IRL who have never seen me as an equal person (racism, sexism, neurodivergence, etc.), and I think they have personalities that I find unsympathetic and irritating, especially as Mr. Fox and Ash alike are responsible for getting the people around them into extreme amounts of danger due to their own selfishness. Sure, Wes Anderson is supposedly saying that they learn their lessons throughout the movie, but I don't really feel like it was executed well at all. There's what the director intended, but there's what the director actually did. In my eyes, I feel like those characters are celebratory of their own ability to get away with the true impact of the harm they caused to others, in a way that is viscerally real to me as I've known a similar people IRL who've harmed myself and others and likewise got off scot-free. This is where the straight, white, male part of my secret came from, as well as the type of guy who smashes things in a room and punches holes in walls. If you know the type, then that's what I'm talking about not relating to them, and if you don't, then lucky! I'm envious!

tl;dr: I find Mr. Fox annoying and I did not find them sympathetic. Please do not go after me for how I used the word relatable, I tried my best. I hope my comment and the one I and meadow made earlier also help.

Re: OP

[(Anonymous)]

I was really only talking about people I’ve seen in the past, not you. I’m sorry I was not clear, but I wasn’t referring to you and I wasn’t coming after you for anything, including the way you used the word relatable. I don’t take issue with your use of the word relatable. I just saw the anon I was replying to’s response about “not watching movies to relate to characters but to each their own”, and thought “Hey! Someone with similar thoughts to me about character relatability! I’ll share my thoughts, and use people I’ve seen in the past for examples of what I’m talking about”. I had read the thread before that, and saw your explanation of the secret as Fantastic Mr. Fox being neurotypical in a way that was egregious and off-putting to you, so I at least knew that your issue wasn’t lack of relatability alone, but something different. That’s why I added “So if OP were coming at this issue feeling disappointed by how this movie, and Wes Andersen movies as a whole, were really neurotypical in an alienating way, I’d definitely get it. That may be what they mean, and I’m just having trouble understanding”.

That was my (poor)attempt to clarify that I know you yourself weren’t talking about relatability alone regardless of your usage of the word, and it was my way of saying I wasn’t referring to you in my earlier paragraph about people who judge works in whether they could relate to characters on a personal level or not. I still wasn’t entirely clear on what the secret overall meant, but me saying it neurotypical to the point where it was alienating to neurodivergent people and that I would understand that perspective was me making a guess. I’ve never seen the movie either way, so I was absolutely not saying you were wrong or that I could never understand your views on it. I also said that the perspective of people that judge works on their relatability are valid, just as much as me, and that it’s not their fault that I got sick of seeing the word relatable used so much by critics. That’s a me problem, like I said. But again, I wasn’t saying you were one of those people. Using representation over relatability for your issue might not have been correct either, but I was guessing. However, I was straight up saying that if your issue was more about representation or the lack there of instead of relatability, then I could agree with your secret if I ever saw the movie for myself. Because I do know what it’s like to not feel seen or heard or represented as neurodivergent. So even if I now know what you mean, and that it’s not exactly as I guessed, I was still correct when I specifically said your issue wasn’t actually relatability. I really wasn’t saying otherwise.

Admittedly, this was probably a poor thread to vent my petty feelings about the times I’ve seen that word used a lot, because it may make it seem like I was lumping you in with them. But I very much wasn’t. Though, past choosing a not great time to have a small pet peeve rant, I don’t really know what I said that was coming after you? I apologize for my poor timing and forethought. But do you think you can tell me where I said the things that could be construed as coming after you, or targeting you for anything? If you don’t want to, that’s fine too, but I just don’t understand where I was antagonistic. I’ve never been great with choosing the right words, as someone on the autistic spectrum. I’m trying my best too. So that’s why my comments tend to be long, because I want room to get my point across in a way I can’t with a short, succinct paragraph. And I thought I had done that with the comment you replied to, as well as thrown in enough clarifications in the second paragraph to make it clear enough that I wasn’t talking about you, and that there’s nothing actually wrong with the people I was talking about just because I can’t personally understand their point of view. I failed to get all of that across, of course, but I’m not sure how?

Re: OP

[(Anonymous)]

SA

And another clarification: I do understand what you mean about the unsympathetic-ness of the characters being a deal-breaker for liking them. Being sympathetic and being relatable are obviously different qualities in a character. And I don’t think that many people would fault you for finding these characters too unsympathetic, and disliking them because of it. They sound very frustrating, never learning lessons. I know some people don’t need characters to be sympathetic to like them, and I get that sometimes. Like with some villains. But it’s much trickier with protagonists, and usually just leaves me not caring what happens to them. If they have no sympathetic qualities and won’t learn or grow, why should I care?

And that’s before the point you have about that being a very neurotypical mindset. How they’re not held to the same standards and expectations neurodivergent people are, and are allowed to just make the same mistakes without learning with little comment from others. In a way we never are. Everything we do feels judged purely because we’re not neurotypical, but they can just skate by without taking accountability for the things they do wrong. That’s not always true, this I know. But it’s still something that they could get away with just because they’re neurotypical.