[ SECRET POST #876 ]

[case]

⌈ Secret Post #876 ⌋

Warning: Some secrets are NOT worksafe and may contain SPOILERS.

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Notes:

Secrets Left to Post: 21 pages, 518 secrets from Secret Submission Post #126.
Secrets Not Posted: [ 1 2 3 4 - not!secrets ], [ 1 2 - not!fandom ], [ 1 2 - too big ], [ 0 - repeat ].
Current Secret Submissions Post: here.
Suggestions, comments, and concerns should go here.

Comments

[angelofcaffeine.livejournal.com]

The concept of Hell is totally ridiculous, I agree. Especially when you consider the standards for Heaven. Jeez.

But nothing - NOTHING - is worth eternal punishment. That's so ridiculously excessive there aren't any words to describe it.

Just to argue, though: You can have a merciful, loving G-d who wants everyone to be in Heaven but is not all-powerful and therefore cannot help that some end up in Hell. So it's not a lose/lose situation if you give up omnipotence. Or omniscience, I guess.

[(Anonymous)]

So... let's assume God is not omnipotent (even though Christianity says He is). He did still make everything, right? And that would include Hell, right? Because if the Creator didn't create everything, then who did the rest of the work?

So, if God created Hell and He doesn't really want people to go there, then why should He make it (or, perhaps more accurately, write the laws) in such a way that the vast majority of humanity is going to end up there? The guy wouldn't just be not omniscient, He'd be downright incompetent!

Then again... considering the placement of both the wind and food ducts in the human body, an incompetent God might explain a lot. ;)

[angelofcaffeine.livejournal.com]

If Hell is the absense of G-d, He didn't have to create it per se. Or perhaps one of his angels (Satan) created it?

These are all great questions, but you really are asking the wrong person if you want an answer. I'm not a Christian.

Now, about the laws - when He wrote the laws, it was to Judaism. As we don't believe in Hell (per se - we have a sort of... er, cleansing process), the laws were not made to distinguish who went to Heaven and who to "Hell". And anyway, Christianity is not about law. Law does not separate those who go to Heaven from those who go to Hell. Christians are "saved" simply by believing.

I totally agree with you that if G-d didn't want people to go to Hell and he was omnipotent, people wouldn't go to Hell. That one I can't make sense out of.

[cobryn-moy.livejournal.com]

"Christians are "saved" simply by believing".

Only the Protestants. Catholics still have to do Good Works too afaik. Darn layabout Protestants.

:)

[bleed-peroxide.livejournal.com]

Not exactly, since Satan also believes in God.

They think you have to basically promise God to devote your life to him, to give up what they consider sinful, to put your life in God's hands, and believe and cling to the fact that Jesus died for your sins on the cross.

They call it being washed in the blood of the lamb (http://web.princeton.edu/sites/chapel/Sermon%20Files/2002_sermons/110302.htm), saved (http://web.princeton.edu/sites/chapel/Sermon%20Files/2002_sermons/110302.htm), et cetera.

[relmneiko.livejournal.com]

Now's twice in this thread Satan's been referred to as equivalent to Lucifer.

Satan and Lucifer are differeeeeeent. But I guess that depends where you are on the spectrum of the religion.

Satan = God's enforcer, punisher, basically responsible for the entire book of Job

Lucifer = fallen angel, banished to Hell

This probably isn't even relevant to the argument, but I just had to butt in. :P

[angelofcaffeine.livejournal.com]

Whoooah holy shit, what? You guys see Satan in the same way as Jews and then add on Lucifer/Devil as another character?

Is that Catholicism?

I'm s confused.

[bleed-peroxide.livejournal.com]

*shrugs* I've always been raised to think of them as the same thing, though Lucifer is used for the fallen angel aspect while Satan is supposed to be for pure evil, something to that effect.

Butting in is perfectly fine. We're all "butting in" when we comment, so it's all good.

[sensualcoco.livejournal.com]

God gave humans "free will." He doesn't want us in hell. But it's our own choice if we want it.

[angelofcaffeine.livejournal.com]

That only works if you think that everyone believes that Jesus was G-d but only certain people choose to follow him. Otherwise it's not us "wanting it [to go to Hell]", it's just us... not believing that Jesus was G-d.

[sensualcoco.livejournal.com]

Well, wasn't it when God created humans, which we're different from angels because he gave us free will? And Eve took the fruit from the tree because she had free will. So that doesn't have to do with strictly Jesus.

And that's what I mean by wanting it, choosing not to accept/believe in God.

[relmneiko.livejournal.com]

According to Paradise Lost, god is omnipotent and omniscient but he still grants his creations free choice. Delving into the paradox therein is pretty much the entire point of the work and takes more words than I'm willing to type.

God did indeed create Hell, knowing that Lucifer would eventually fall to it.

And Paradise Lost was apparently based on biblical scriptures that were available at the time (but aren't now), so hey, this could all be Bible material rather than a gigantic fanfic here.

[snackbreak.livejournal.com]

Even if He was omnipotent, isn't the point of free will that we can choose Hell without his interference?

I mean, obviously no one sane is going to say "yes, Hell sounds like a good time" based off of what we think Hell is in modern society - but it's probably not that straightforward (if it exists, and I am not saying it does, I am just postulating here). If Hell is simply the "absence of God" then well, people turn away from God all the time by choice. Who hasn't rebelled against their parents, for example? I think there's a natural "I can do this myself, and I don't need your help SO BUTT OUT" instinct in most of us, even if that isn't really what we want in the long run.

(and for the record, I believe anything is possible, so I think Hell is a possibility as much as I think reincarnation is a possibility. I'm not particularly attached to it existing though - if it's made up, awesome x a million)