[ SECRET POST #5950 ]

[case]

⌈ Secret Post #5950 ⌋

Warning: Some secrets are NOT worksafe and may contain SPOILERS.


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07. [SPOILERS for The Starry Love (cdrama)]




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08. [WARNING for discussion of violence/homophobia]




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09. [WARNING for HP/JKR/transphobia discussion]




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10. [WARNING for HP/JKR/transphobia/abuse discussion]




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11. [WARNING for discussion of fertility problems/miscarriage]




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12. [WARNING for discussion of RL war/abortion/racism/etc]




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13. [WARNING for discussion of mental health issues]



























Notes:

Secrets Left to Post: 00 pages, 00 secrets from Secret Submission Post #850.
Secrets Not Posted: [ 0 - broken links ], [ 0 - not!secrets ], [ 0 - not!fandom ], [ 1 - too big ], [ 0 - repeat ].
Current Secret Submissions Post: here.
Suggestions, comments, and concerns should go here.

Comments

[fscom]

10. [WARNING for HP/JKR/transphobia/abuse discussion]
https://i.imgur.com/YKIsYEu.jpg

[(Anonymous)]

Could have something to do with the fact that Whedon never weaponized the BtVS franchise, or argued that anyone who still enjoys his work is tacitly agreeing with his abuses or viewpoints, as JKR has been known to do.

Could also have something to do with the fact that fandom as an entity is a lot more accepting of the "hate Whedon, still love Buffy" stance, while still vilifying anyone who dares to admit they may still have fond feelings about HP. Which may have something to do with the above point, may just be fannish posturing, or may be some mix of the two.

[(Anonymous)]

Also, Buffy's done and people's fond memories are of something in the past. JKR refuses to let HP rest and every time its zombie corpse shambles past it gets harder and harder to ignore the rotten bits.

[(Anonymous)]

Men tend to get given a free pass for this stuff.

[(Anonymous)]

Who do you think has given Whedon a free pass on this? He's widely reviled and got forced out of the last show he tried to do.

Even OP isn't saying that his abuse is NBD - they're just saying that, in their opinion, it doesn't show up on screen in BTVS.

[(Anonymous)]

Oh has he received death threats/rape threats/had a book written celebrating his gruesome murder then?

And ykw, he's a thousand times worse than JKR.

[(Anonymous)]

Oh! That's what you're doing. In that case, I will ignore you.

[(Anonymous)]

Quite likely, actually, given how the internet works. Hell, if he didn’t receive death threats over sunken ships it would make him different from every other show runner in the world. But since he doesn’t publicly flaunt that a person said mean words at him and now he has no choice but to bankroll hate crimes, it’s a little hard to tell.

[(Anonymous)]

This ^^^^

[(Anonymous)]

Yup, smells like misogyny, sure enough!

[(Anonymous)]

+1

[(Anonymous)]

IMO Whedon's issues definitely do show up in Buffy, specifically with Faith. But it's definitely not as prominent in Buffy as it is in other shows he's made. Like Dollhouse. Jesus fucking Christ, Dollhouse.

[(Anonymous)]

for me what makes the difference is that whedon's shit is so much less overtly political

he's a fucking scumbag to real human beings who are near him in real life, but that's a relatively small number of people. Whedon isn't donating huge chunks of his personal fortune to support laws to make spousal abuse legal again, you feel me? He's not contributing to endangering thousands of people on a vast impersonal institutional scale. And he might have a liiittle more ability to be a douchebag insulated from consequences by remaining "creator of beloved series BTVS" but since at this point it's always "now-reviled creator of beloved series BTVS", that doesn't seem like a huge amount of additional power to cause harm for him.

Whereas JKR is absolutely using both her clout and her money to actively endanger and oppress an entire population of queer people. So I can't justify (or. like. bear?) to contribute to that, and it poisons my old affection for the thing way more deeply.

Also TV is just a far, far more collaborative medium than books. He created/captained Buffy but he didn't write every episode, he didn't direct every episode or make every acting choice, etc. JKR had editors who clearly had no sway over her for the last 3 books and I'm sure people she bounced ideas off of, but...every word in there is ultimately hers. It's a much tighter identification of media with creator.

[(Anonymous)]

basically this. Joss has afaik disappeared from importance. He's not still being hired to produce or direct or write. he doesn't have a stake in any major properties anymore. half his shit is in syndication so that money is spent. JKR is still shoehorning herself into her increasingly bland franchise and any progressive elements are in spite of her/as a giant fuck you to her, not something she's allowing herself. there's a world of difference and it has nothing to do with their genders.

also, I support Buffy to support the people who worked on it and gave their all for it in spite of what Joss was doing to them at the time - Charisma, Michelle, Sarah Michelle, etc. they had to put up with his shit and still turned out an amazing story with good characters due to their performances. it's like supporting Daniel and Emma and Rupert in spite of whatever the fuck was happening backstage on the HP movies. they all, at least, have their heads on straight.

[(Anonymous)]

I think for me it’s partly because the show was done for decades before I learned anything about him, and partly because as you say that his shittiness isn’t shining through every moment.
But another part of it for me is that HP fandom has always been extremely commercial so liking it at the very least makes it seem like complicity. And there’s loads of unlicensed merch out there but showing HP love is a harmful message to vulnerable people and just because JK is a steaming pile of shit it doesn’t mean theft is suddenly ok.
(I’m talking straight up merch, not fanworks, not even fanworks for sale. The Cricut made vinyl shirts and the glittery resin coasters and all that stuff)

[killnotic]

JW is a dick and has been for a long, long time, but he largely kept his dickishness off the page/screen and mostly hidden from sight. Jo is a billionaire who is using her vast wealth to destroy an entire class of people. Not to mention she's in all likelihood bigoted in other ways that haven't been revealed yet, but I won't be surprised if it's sooner rather than later considering the group of scumbags she's hanging out with.

And Joss, it seems, also knows when to shut his fucking mouth (eventually) and keep his head down. Jo, on the other hand, keeps tweeting and digging the hole she's in deeper and deeper, comfortably swirling at the bottom of the whirlpool she swam into. All because she doesn't know how to mind her own business and enjoy her billion dollars.

[(Anonymous)]

And Joss, it seems, also knows when to shut his fucking mouth (eventually) and keep his head down. Jo, on the other hand, keeps tweeting and digging the hole she's in deeper and deeper, comfortably swirling at the bottom of the whirlpool she swam into. All because she doesn't know how to mind her own business and enjoy her billion dollars

Ding!Ding!Ding! We have a winner!

If JW was all over social media complaining that actually he's the littlest victim and all these women have too many rights these days, if he was literally writing books where his expy gets murdered by an enraged, pregnant career woman, if he publicly and proudly gave millions of dollars to MRA lobbyists while constantly bragging that anybody who watches anything he's touched obviously agrees with all his actions, he might taint his former works beyond repair.

Maybe not though, since JKR does do all that shit and keeps churning out mediocre HP content and the most that's come of it is sometimes people are mean to her online.

[killnotic]

...if he was literally writing books where his expy gets murdered by an enraged, pregnant career woman...

You know what? I'd read that book.

[(Anonymous)]

I'd read it if Marti Noxon wrote it.

[killnotic]

Co-written with Charisma Carpenter. And Amber Benson too. Because I still get angry when I remember Joss called her too fat to play Tara.

[meadowphoenix]

the difference to me is that buffy was a creation of several people and hp was the creation of one person, so buffy is not always interpreted through Whedon's intentions. they both have their primary creator's bullshit written into the media, like no offense but there's no denying this. and still not buying anything that allows either of them to profit.

[(Anonymous)]

Yeah. Buffy had a whole writer's room, and the tie in novels/comics/etc were often written by people other than Joss. The cast, the wardrobe people, everyone on set, helped to create the Buffyverse. JKR wrote the HP series by herself. *shrug*

[(Anonymous)]

Harry Potter was the creation of a lot of folks too. Blyton, Gaiman, Jill Murphy...

[meadowphoenix]

bb, I'm working on the basis of good faith and common sense. come back when you are.