[ SECRET POST #6006 ]

[case]

⌈ Secret Post #6006 ⌋

Warning: Some secrets are NOT worksafe and may contain SPOILERS.


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[From]



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[Youtube channel "Hello Future Me"]



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[Monark]



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09. [SPOILERS for Across the Spiderverse]




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10. [WARNING for transphobia/standard JKR stuff]






















































Notes:

Secrets Left to Post: 00 pages, 00 secrets from Secret Submission Post #858.
Secrets Not Posted: [ 0 - broken links ], [ 0 - not!secrets ], [ 0 - not!fandom ], [ 0 - too big ], [ 0 - repeat ].
Current Secret Submissions Post: here.
Suggestions, comments, and concerns should go here.

Comments

[(Anonymous)]

Your putting "real world" and "verifiable / replicable" and such in all caps does not make your argument any more convincing than it would be otherwise

They're not meant to. They're meant for emphasis. Real world data that is verifiable and replicable always trumps your opinion. Sorry, that's just how science works.

But I get that you're trying to explain something to me that is important to you, so I will set aside the possibility that you're speaking this emphatically because you think I'm stupid and read what you have to say carefully anyway.

Yes, that is it exactly. I've seen 3rd graders get this so the idea that you don't is kind of alarming. I was trying to be as basic in my terminology and explanations as possible, though apparently not basic enough.

I don't agree that the only choices we could make are "forcing people into restrictive, sex-based gender norms" or "authoritatively state to them and their parents that they were indeed born in the wrong body (this is what affirmation is, AFAIK)

And we have our first issue. You say AFAIK and you are completely wrong about that. See, we live in a society that has a certain view on gender and it's almost impossible not to incorporate that as we grow. Sometimes what we WANT falls into another category and so we would like to move over there. Sometimes what we want is in the middle and we would like to be in the middle. Sometimes we want the whole category thing to just fuck off and let us be. Some trans people just want social transition. That is gender affirming care. Some trans people want top surgery but not bottom. That is gender affirming care. Some people want bottom surgery but not top. That is gender affirming care. Some people aren't trans, but find part of their body gives them gender dysphoria, such as breast augmentation. That is what gender affirming care is. It is allowing people to have the body that they feel most comfortable in. It doesn't force men to become women. When a man comes and says, hey, this part of my body makes me deeply uncomfortable ALL THE TIME, gender affirming care says, okay, we can take a look at the options and see what will make you feel better. So all of that world view you have that gender affirming care is gender essentialism is wrong and everything that flows from it is wrong. So I will not be addressing the parts of your argument that rest on it.

It's not even admitting how much is unknown about the long term effects of attempting to avoid puberty

There isn't a whole lot that is unknown, considering we've been doing this with cis kids since the 1980s. So, that argument is false.

Even when these things (and a lot of others) become known, though, it's needlessly difficult to circulate the information

I vaguely see this point. But medical information circulated through a community comes with a lot of risks of MISinformation circulated through the community. Yes, please, talk about your lived experience and let others know what they can reasonably expect (though do NOT guarantee as all people are different) but that is information that needs to be given to you by your medical professional. Because, as I said, each person is different and they have the expertise to help you evaluate your opportunities and risks of each treatment option. This is NOT something you want to get from randos. Which leads into the issue of:

But the only consent that's worthy of the term is informed consent. And we need that, if we're going to convince anyone that legislating bodily autonomy away from people is not the way to go.

Agreed. The issue with gender affirming care as I see it is the same issue we're having with medical care in general, in that doctors are having a hard time with the "informed" part of informed consent. It's not something special to trans people, or gender affirming care specifically, either for affirming the gender assigned at birth or an affirmation of transition. The culture has changed from the 1950s where you did whatever the doctor told you and ethics boards didn't think informed consent was necessary. Now medical care has become a partnership between doctor and patient, and that naturally will come with some growing pains. Thankfully they are aware of the problem and are working on studies to figure out the disconnect and how to solve it.