[ SECRET POST #6112 ]

[case]

⌈ Secret Post #6112 ⌋

Warning: Some secrets are NOT worksafe and may contain SPOILERS.


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[Remnant: From the Ashes]



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Notes:

Secrets Left to Post: 02 pages, 40 secrets from Secret Submission Post #874.
Secrets Not Posted: [ 0 - broken links ], [ 0 - not!secrets ], [ 0 - not!fandom ], [ 0 - too big ], [ 0 - repeat ].
Current Secret Submissions Post: here.
Suggestions, comments, and concerns should go here.

Comments

[fscom]

02. https://i.imgur.com/vlwzNWH.png

[(Anonymous)]

Some of it definitely has a weird vibe. I found it weird because I always used the word like "bimbo" before it became a big thing in fandom. A hot, dumb guy, not buff or kind?????? Also a lot of people acting like it's super body positive somehow to valorize buff men, instead of a normal male beauty standard. Okay, whatever.

[(Anonymous)]

Like, to me himbo just means a hot stupid guy, it could be a skinny mean guy or a buff nice guy or whatever??? The more specific fandom trope felt so random.

DA

[(Anonymous)]

I'm personally annoyed that fandom decided himbos need to be buff. I was around for some of its use in fandom before that became a rule, and it was more fun then... because I like the hot dumb guy trope but I'm not into buff guys. There's this weird subgroup of people in fandom (mostly I think, masc4masc gay men and NLOG women) who think liking thin guys is for sheeple and liking buffness is brave and counterculture. They are definitely partly responsible for the himbo = buff thing.

Re: DA

[(Anonymous)]

It's absurd, as if buff guy with zero body fat is somehow an unusual subversive thing to be into?? If you look around, a lot of body shaming gets aimed at smaller guys. I'm definitely not saying fat phobia isn't a thing or that skinny guys aren't privileged in other ways, this is way more nuanced than I can get into in one comment, but I've seen some truly confused discourse on this subject, where the whole point was... being into buff guys who aren't fat is somehow anti-fatphobic and anti-conventional body standards, which is just not true at all. I think some of it is also coming from people who are very insecure about the female beauty standards they are pressured by and project it onto fictional male faves.

[(Anonymous)]

I always thought himbo was just hot but dumb (eg Joey from Friends could count) not just Beefcake (buff and possibly dumb). I never thought this was supposed to be a good thing, more it's a good thing he's pretty because he's so dumb his looks are his only asset.

[(Anonymous)]

"I never thought this was supposed to be a good thing, more it's a good thing he's pretty because he's so dumb his looks are his only asset."

Yeah, this was always how I interpreted it too-- a guy who is dumb but it's okay because he's really good-looking. A female version of a bimbo, basically.

[(Anonymous)]

There's an argument to be had that bimbos are popular among men for the same reason, regarding the 'stupid = safe' bit.

[(Anonymous)]

I think both tropes have uncomfortable subtext on a wider level, bimbo more so because it's more common and the trope is typically depicted in a more negative light, though both can be shown positively or negatively. Bimbo is also linked to porn tropes and misogynistic stereotypes in a way that is more pervasive than the himbo trope IMO, which reflects attitudes towards men on a smaller scale and has less of a history. That's my take anyway, what do you think?

[(Anonymous)]

AYART

The differences in depictions are unfortunate - dumb men are indeed often portrayed as more socially acceptable than dumb women but as far as the actual physical attraction to these types of characters and people go, I think the popularity for 'hot but stupid' regardless of the gender in question often stems from a similar place. Intelligence can be threatening, particularly from someone who is also physically attractive. Alternatively, 'dumbness' or perhaps more lightly worded, 'goofiness', can have a correlation with 'fun and entertaining'.

Different strokes for different folks, mileage may vary for others of course.

[(Anonymous)]

SA
Thinking on it, I should have used the word 'stupid' instead of 'dumb' from a definition standpoint. (Possibly bordering on irony there on my part, what with the topic at hand.)

[(Anonymous)]

Hmm, I can see what you mean. The idea of a fun, silly partner who is super hot is not specific to gender. I feel there's a lot of different baggage attached to the idea of female intelligence and male intelligence, so while people might be drawn to the tropes for similar reasons, there's different stuff shaping the tropes. So directly comparing them is a bit complicated, because there are different things going on there.

[(Anonymous)]

Eh, maybe it's just me, but to me it feels like "safe" is defined different for himbos vs. bimbos. I can see why women might find the concept of a himbo as attractive and "safe", as in, here's a man who's good looking and physically very strong, but his kindness and sweetness means he'd never knowingly hurt you and can in fact be counted on to protect you and anyone else who needs it.

Whereas I don't think men fear for their safety so much when it comes to women. I think the kind of man who likes a "bimbo" type might find her "safe" as in, "she's too dumb to challenge my intelligence, superiority and any other sexist BS I plan to throw her way".

[(Anonymous)]

nayrt

True, while the impulse can come from a similar place the overall tropes and reasons for them are not the same IMO. I can definitely see why the more recent fandom trope of the kind, strong himbo is so popular even if I am not wild about it myself.

[meadowphoenix]

so tropes aren't really about correlation. like "mean dumb boyfriend" is also a narrative trope and "perfect boyfriend" tropes often require the guy be firing on all attractive cylinders, including intelligence. secondly, there are at least two narrative versions of the himbo. there's the "first" one where the himbo where the himbo is the slub boyfriend but hot, so the inference is that the non-himbo is long-suffering but the attractiveness makes up for it. then there's the "second" version where the himbo's specific social attractiveness imo is that he's a good boyfriend despite not being the sharpest, i.e. the non-himbo partner is couched as someone who is giving something up (a partnership that is mutually guided) for something better (someone who is kind and well-intentioned).

i think you can criticize this trope (there are some counter-narrative versions where part of the non-himbo's growth is realizing that they are in some way emotionally taking advantage of their partner because they assume a lack of comprehension means a lack of depth or emotional need), but i don't think your interpretation gets at why it's popular in either its shallow version of arm-candy or its more nuanced version of "he's dumb but he's good".

side-note: I would not consider hercules a himbo, just naive about relationships.

[(Anonymous)]

I do think that there is a sense with the second category (which IMO is the more archetypal of the two) that the lack of intelligence is a token of the himbo being kind and well-intentioned. It's not attractive in itself but it is a guarantee of the qualities which are.

[meadowphoenix]

i completely disagree with the second being "more" archetypel, I'd argue that you can actually see the second as a development of the first, where the comedy was either that he got left for someone more well-rounded OR he was so hot any other lack was worth it, and then someone was like...well what if he was worth it beyond that.

for the idea of sense, the second himbo trope is very much similar to and interacts with the "chill/beach bum/zen bf" trope to a similar effect. i think both are playing on audience expectations of emotional labor more than they connecting the value of the bf with his lack of skill. Like most of the time, even in the 3 examples I recognize in the pic, the point is an indictment of the assumption that dumbness/shallowness means burdensome bf. I could see how this is a fine line, and probably depends on how they depict rival love interests or the protagonist themself.

The Munsters sorta plays with it in an edifying way as an in-between, in that Herman is sort of a himbo, in that other monster characters do think Herman is hot, but it's very clear that his lack of intelligence quite regularly harms the family and also that they put up with it because he's extremely well-intentioned.

[(Anonymous)]

I thought the most critical part of a himbo was the kindness

[(Anonymous)]

Yeah, pretty much. Kindness and the accompanying genuineness. Too often, characters that are both buff and "smart" are either assholes or cynics. Or both. Which is a whole other discussion we could be having, but there you go.

[(Anonymous)]

It's part of the himbo but it's ridiculous to say that it's the most critical part of a himbo

The most critical part of a himbo is being physically built and good-looking

[(Anonymous)]

Disagree. That's just the most critical part of being a main male character in most media. Since only a small percentage of those characters are himbos, the most critical part of the himbo has to be what differentiates him from every other hot guy in the hot guy pile.

[(Anonymous)]

I agree with other anon, anyone can be buff, but "himbo" takes other qualities.

[sabotabby]

Oh yeah, that really does nail down why I'm uncomfortable about it.

[(Anonymous)]

I think, as with a lot of things, part of it was just some people having a specific preference and taste (which is obviously fine), and then that getting merged with a lot of weird cultural ideas that were in the aether in ways that were often off-putting and unfortunate

[(Anonymous)]

I think the popularity of himbos had a lot to do with the prevalence of edgy, cynical antiheros. I love a sincere, earnest, happy-go-lucky man, you know? These Tony Starks and Sherlocks Holme just ain't working for me, so the total opposite is fun and appealing