[ SECRET POST #6238 ]

[case]

⌈ Secret Post #6238 ⌋

Warning: Some secrets are NOT worksafe and may contain SPOILERS.


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[Hannibal Lecter]



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Notes:

Secrets Left to Post: 02 pages, 44 secrets from Secret Submission Post #892.
Secrets Not Posted: [ 0 - broken links ], [ 0 - not!secrets ], [ 0 - not!fandom ], [ 0 - too big ], [ 0 - repeat ].
Current Secret Submissions Post: here.
Suggestions, comments, and concerns should go here.

Comments

Re: Favorite Fan Theories

[ariakas]

That... does not say that it was "NEVER" the intent. Given the presence of Griever when you fight Ultimecia, it prettttttty obviously was the intent. It just says it's not canon now - i.e., they decided not to go with it.

TBF I can see why, that would have been much, much darker than the endings FF is known for and more of what something like SMT would pull. And that's fine! A lot of people love the romance in FF8. Honestly, they probably made the right call, even if I personally would have found R = U more interesting.

Re: Favorite Fan Theories

[(Anonymous)]

The themes of FF8 are all about fate, and making her Rinoa spits on a lot of that. Ultimecia is a story about how one girl is fated to become evil because of a cycle of discrimination that creates her. Rinoa has no reason to go with Time Compression--she knows well by the end of the game alone that time can't be changed, no matter what you do. It's written in stone in FF8. If she's Rinoa, then there's no reason for her to end up as Ultimecia other than people not catching on to the backstory that exists for Ultimecia.

If she was Rinoa, it would have to be WELL before half the plot was even written because, frankly, the entire speech in Deling City makes 0 sense otherwise. Ultimecia is clearly a woman who has known no peace in her life, who has always been hated because she was a young Sorceress. She essentially has an entire speech about how they celebrate her NOW. Hell, her Japanese speech translated is even more damning and telling of how Not Rinoa she is.

"It reeks. Filthy rabble.

Since time immemorial, we sorceresses have existed within a fantasy world, a world you so foolishly made up in your heads. Sorceresses in black dresses, sacrificing pious citizens in dark rituals. The merciless sorceress who uses dark magic to burn your fertile land and to chill your homes at night. Such drivel.

And now, that the sorceress from your fantasies appears in front of you as a friend to Galbadia, are you lulled into a false sense of security? Which one of us is living in a fantasy now?

Reality isn't so sweet, not sweet at all, and all that remains for you fools is this: \kills the president**

So, run back to your fantasies. Hide, and I shall continue to dance for you in that illusionary world. I shall dance for eternity as the sorceress who brings ruin. You and I, together we shall create the final fantasy, and within it, life and death will be nothing but mere dreams.

Eternal shall be the sorceress, and also Galbadia, her loyal servant.

A sorceress needs dark rituals, a sacrifice has to be made."

combine this with her dialogue around Griever in Japanese, which was mangled in translation, and your theory also falls apart there.

"I will summon whom you believe to be the most powerful. The stronger you will him to be, the stronger he will become. You shall suffer." (JPN)

I guess this is why this is a theory I only see over on the English side, I guess--shoddy translation muddied clarity.

Re: Favorite Fan Theories

[ariakas]

Huh, I didn't know the translation around Griever in the endgame was so different, thanks for posting it! That definitely makes me reconsider intent. I stand corrected.

(This feels a lot like people calling BS on Tseng "revival" in Advent Children when in the JP it was never stated that he'd died in the first place, just been badly injured.)

That said, that speech could be one from Rinoa's OG timeline, wherein Squall doesn't save her, or a timeline wherein she is greatly disillusioned. I don't think that's the smoking gun you think it is.

Unfortunately, if that is the case, I'm afraid I have to agree with one of the comments to the Kotaku article you posted, that if this isn't true and never was true, that makes the story of FF8 immeasurably worse as now Ultimecia has no core emotional relevancy. I suppose that's a matter of opinion though. And it doesn't change the fact that, since "time can't change", Rinoa can be re-possessed at any point in the future as Ultimecia must exist and must compress time, because if she doesn't, the history of the world changes and she and Squall never meet.

Re: Favorite Fan Theories

[(Anonymous)]

I actually find it better, because "Rinoa and Ultimecia" feels like the 3edgy5me kinda theory akin to Squall is Dead, to me. Sure, Rinoa could be re-possessed... But that's kinda the point. Ultimecia ends up happening because she's part of a stable time loop, an ever-present threat. And given there's only one Sorceress following Rinoa, at all times, then they'd always be able to monitor who the powers pass to. It's kinda a grim fate for an entire line of women, robbed of their futures before even being born...

Her emotional relevancy is in her being a testament to how discrimination ruins people. It's quite likely that she spent at least part of her life locked up.

Re: Favorite Fan Theories

[ariakas]

I can definitely see your point, now that I've got the better translation; personally, I prefer her having emotional relevancy to the core cast rather than the overarching plot/themes, but that's just a preference.

IMO another element driving the popularity of R=U is how badly handled the Squall/Rinoa romance was, so people are searching for Rinoa to have a deeper meaning to the story than simply being Squall's oddly forced, oddly ill-fitting romance (as opposed to how it was handled in FFX, very well-laid out, gradual, and believable) with (depending on how you answered dialogue choices) a complete swerve of Squall's entire personality in the second act. Some people loved it on opposites-attract grounds, but it was certainly divisive, and R=U makes it a tragic-doomed romance that appeals to others, besides.

Re: Favorite Fan Theories

[(Anonymous)]

I'd argue most people just hate Rinoa in that case because it basically says she's willing to destroy the world, but also... Ultimecia never once shows any affection toward Squall, and only ever shows a desire to kill him.