fandomsecrets | [ SECRET POST #6322 ]

[ SECRET POST #6322 ]

⌈ Secret Post #6322 ⌋

Warning: Some secrets are NOT worksafe and may contain SPOILERS.

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Notes:

Secrets Left to Post: 02 pages, 48 secrets from Secret Submission Post #904.
Secrets Not Posted: [ 0 - broken links ], [ 0 - not!secrets ], [ 0 - not!fandom ], [ 0 - too big ], [ 0 - repeat ].
Current Secret Submissions Post: here.
Suggestions, comments, and concerns should go here.

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07. https://i.imgur.com/MDEkS4Y.jpeg

You had me in the first half, I'm not gonna lie.
I don't know the character, but yeah, she doesn't look GNC. That's pretty standard practical but recognizably feminine styling. And yes, there’s a tendency in some circles to label any female character as non-feminine who isn’t both dainty and wearing pink and/or frills, even if they’re still recognizably feminine.

That being said, wanting to see butch and gnc women in media is not some kind of attack on the concept of femininity. It’s mostly just people wanting to see the diversity of women's existence reflected in fiction now and again, and honestly, that's not wrong to want.

It's a publicity shot.

In the film, she's not really wearing makeup, and her nails are filthy.

It's absolutely true that this character isn't butch, but gnc is a broad label that can apply to a lot of things not just looks. but butch she is not. However this secret seems kind of OTT aggressive about it

+1

I don't necessarily disagree with the secret but I do think the secret is a little overly prescriptive about what "GNC" can mean and I would very mildly push back on that. You can be GNC and have soft things about you.

I agree. I think people confuse 'not dressed sexily' or 'dressed functionally' with butch.

/Lady who finds the butch aesthetic attractive but feels nothing towards Jyn Erso

+1. The minute a woman isn't plucked and scrubbed and dressed for the cameras, she's manly and butch and non conforming. I've seen so many men call a woman "manly", only to see just... a woman, a normal everyday woman. Just existing.

"I find butch women attractive, and I don't find this woman attractive, therefore this woman isn't butch" isn't exactly a great way to measure butchness.

I find long hair on men attractive. Doesn't mean the odd man whose hair goes down to his waist and happens to do nothing for me actually has short hair.

Speak for yourself. Any woman I don't find attractive is obviously a man.

/s

That's not really what they said, and Jyn Erso still ain't butch.

Butch is closeted trans.

It's not.

It clearly is. Now that it's socially acceptable, butch women are transitioning fairly frequently.

Nope.

There's historical overlap between butch and trans, sure, and less of a "need" for that overlap in today's world, but butch =/= trans.

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Bait.

Counterpoint: butch trans women.

Yeah, she's just... normal? Loose, long hair + visible makeup, but wearing clothing that is practical for the thing that she's doing is not gender non-conforming, it's being a normal woman. (I'd even go so far as to say it's on the feminine side, as loose long hair and makeup are not practical for what she's doing either.) That said, like one anon referred to above, gnc can refer to other aspects of presentation like attitude or personality or even hobbies/interests; though iirc Jyn isn't spitting on the ground or tuning bikes and playing football in what we see of her.

I would say her personality isn't what's usually considered "feminine" (in fact, that seems to be what some people dislike about her: she's disagreeable, doesn't really smile, doesn't bother with socisl graces, etc), and she certainly seems to like fighting quite a bit.

But no one is 100% conforming or non-conforming, and having some non-conforming aspects doesn't make a woman butch.

Exactly. "Not wearing makeup" =/= gender non-conforming and I'm so tired of people trying to insist that it is. Some women just don't enjoy wearing makeup! That doesn't somehow make them less of a woman.

She's just the butchest girl Star Wars fandom can handle.

Cara Dune

The only thing butch about Cara Dune is that she has muscles.

When people say a there's a butch character in a Hollywood movie, I can maybe at most expect Michelle Rodriguez.

Hello, Jenette Goldstein, Aliens?

:D

i agree that she isn't butch, and she isn't gnc (I think you have to non-conform for that and enough "woman in rebellion" looks are similar to this for it to be conforming imo), but whether she's feminine is a little weirder for me. i'd guess i'd want to know the aim of the classification here. why does this matter?

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