[ SECRET POST #955 ]

[case]

⌈ Secret Post #955 ⌋

Warning: Some secrets are NOT worksafe and may contain SPOILERS.

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[Beethoven]


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Notes:

Secrets Left to Post: 12 pages, 288 secrets from Secret Submission Post #137.
Secrets Not Posted: [ 1 2 3 - broken links ], [ 1 2 3 - not!secrets ], [ 1 - not!fandom ], [ 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 - too big ], [ 1 2 - repeat ], [ 1 - take it to comments ].
Current Secret Submissions Post: here.
Suggestions, comments, and concerns should go here.

Comments

[zanzou-chan.livejournal.com]

But they don't seem to want anything.

And while those things are nice, at the end of the day, I think they would be there to make wizards feel better, not House Elves. Most House Elves would probably just think their Masters are being weird. :|

House Elves: they aren't people.

[lljscrawls.livejournal.com]

I'm sorry, but putting aside the fictional aspect, your last sentence STRONGLY offends me. They may not be human, but they are certainly people. They are sentient creatures with thoughts, feelings, needs, and desires - whatever those needs and desires may be. They most certainly are people.

[zanzou-chan.livejournal.com]

No, I meant they aren't people. They don't have the same drives as human beings, they don't have the same necessities to life-- service could very well be essential to their survival.

There are ways in which they are similar, yes. But at the end of the day, they are different, alien, other. They aren't considered people by the wizarding world on any level (see: they don't seem to have rights), and I doubt they would want to become entangled in the mess of wizarding politics that would be required if they are people.

They aren't people. They are magical beings, different down to the core. What you would apply to a person you know cannot be applied to them.

[lljscrawls.livejournal.com]

They aren't human, but they are people. Just because they aren't seen to be people by the wizarding world doesn't mean they aren't. Back in the days of slavery in the United States, African-Americans weren't seen as people by the white population. Does that mean that they weren't people back then? No, definitely not. They were most certainly people then just as they ARE people now.

The wizarding world is FAR from perfect, and they are NOT always right just because they're human. The house-elves are elves, yes - they are elves, and they are not human, but they are MOST CERTAINLY people. Magical beings or not, they are people, and they deserve to have rights and be treated as such.

[zanzou-chan.livejournal.com]

They don't fit the legal definition of people. Nor should they-- it would involve them having the same rights, and be applicable to the same laws, as people, and they are different enough that this hsould not be the case. They are magical beings, and should be treated as such-- that might have a lot of overlap for people's rights, but they aren't the same, and should not be treated as such.

Having rights is not something limited to people. Animals have rights. Businesses have rights. Being a person is not at all what dictates those things. You might be attached to the term, but it doesn't fit for house elves, just like it doesn't fit for goblins, or fairies, or centaurs.

[lljscrawls.livejournal.com]

I think we just have a different definition of the word "people," so I'm going to just let it go and agree to disagree.

[babycharmander.livejournal.com]

But because they're not human, they also don't think the same way humans do. To them, serving humans for free is GOOD. It's what they WANT to do.

Yes, they're sentient creatures with feelings and the like, but that does not mean they're going to act and behave and think EXACTLY like humans.

[lljscrawls.livejournal.com]

But that also doesn't mean that they should be bound to the slavery that forces them to harm themselves when ordered to for the gratification of humans (whether it's to punish them, or just for sick amusement).

It doesn't make the fact that they have no rights and that they are virtually slaves to the wizarding race right in the slightest.

[babycharmander.livejournal.com]

I never said that it was RIGHT that some of the human masters made their house elves HARM themselves. THAT is definitely abuse, which is always wrong.

If they're treated fairly though I don't see the problem with them serving humans for free.

[lljscrawls.livejournal.com]

I think the wages thing should be an option. Like, it shouldn't be mandatory for the half-elves to accept it, but it should be mandatory for the witches/wizards to at least offer.

And I think the physical punishment ordered by the wizarding world should definitely be illegal. I also think the house-elves should be able to leave if they choose, should have actual rooms and nice sleeping quarters instead of, say, closest next to the broilers, and should basically be treated like people who are granting a service to the wizards rather than slaves that are there to work and be kicked around.

I also think they're people, even if no one else agrees with me.

[babycharmander.livejournal.com]

I don't know about the wages thing, since they're like... offended if offered money, IIRC.

As for the other stuff, though, yeah, the abuse should definitely be illegal and they should be offered rooms of their own (if that wouldn't offend them--not sure if it would), and they should be treated fairly and not kicked around and stuff.

But as for being totally, 100% freed? I'd say no, since that's not what they want.

[lljscrawls.livejournal.com]

I think a balance could be found, and I think that any work put toward finding that balance is a good thing. Maybe they wouldn't be 100% freed - but then again, maybe they would be. It's impossible to say what would make them happiest in the end, though I think my biggest stance on the subject is just that their rights should be fought for, and that it's wrong to think, "Oh, they like it, so just leave things the way they are."