[ SECRET POST #6377 ]

[case]

⌈ Secret Post #6377 ⌋

Warning: Some secrets are NOT worksafe and may contain SPOILERS.


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[Chobits]



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Notes:

Secrets Left to Post: 00 pages, 00 secrets from Secret Submission Post #911.
Secrets Not Posted: [ 0 - broken links ], [ 0 - not!secrets ], [ 0 - not!fandom ], [ 0 - too big ], [ 0 - repeat ], [ 2 - that seemed like transphobic trolls ].
Current Secret Submissions Post: here.
Suggestions, comments, and concerns should go here.

Comments

[ariakas]

But what you actually said was "everyone in fandom" while the other anon pointed out that fanfic written by straight dudes is overwhelmingly dominated by female characters. So it's not "everyone in fandom", it's "certain sections of fandom".

I also don't understand this allergic reaction to simply taking people at their word. If someone say they write mostly male characters because they find the male characters in their fandoms more interesting, or more relatable, or they don't like writing about female anatomy, or they like the distance it puts between themselves and the character, or part of the fantasy is imagining themselves with different biology, or that they're simply physically attracted to men and not women, why must we automatically assume they're lying and that the real reason is that they hate women?

The stupidest of these arguments is that the people who say the female characters are less interesting/interact less have to be lying when female characters being shortchanged/not interacting unless it's about a man/not given any other purpose but to serve as a man's partner or foil or backstory is such a well-known, well-studied, well-discussed aspect of virtually all media.

As more and more fandoms appear where f/f is the dominant mode of fiction (Dunmeshi, Korra, Arcane, The Expanse) even in areas of fandom traditionally dominated by slash (e.g., AO3), in addition to the ones where that was always the case (BSSM, Madoka, etc.), this argument appears increasingly asinine. If you write interesting female characters with interesting dynamics who are the focal points of their stories who people would like to explore the relationships of in derivative works, people will do just that. If you don't, they won't.

[(Anonymous)]

Why should we take people at their word, when their actions undermine those words? To use an extreme but illustrative example, male Gorians claim to love and respect women, but simultaneously believe they should be enslaved.

People lie all the time, both to others and to themselves. They tie themselves in linguistic knots to avoid uncomfortable emotions and truths, or in a bid to keep others from thinking poorly about them. Deeds are what matter, and what tell you who a person truly is, and what they truly believe.

And the fact is that even when you have a female character who checks all the boxes, there is contingent of the "there are no good female characters" crowd who is still unhappy. There's a contingent who will suddenly argue that the story should have been about the man in the tale; or that the woman is awful for daring to speak back to the attractive man, or for being in charge rather than letting him take the lead. Their words are clearly not lining up with their actions, and I find the notion that we should just believe what people say and disregard their behavior far more asinine than the notion that humans can be, and often are, dishonest.

[ariakas]

You're right: people do lie, even to themselves. So we sometimes need to infer the truth from their actions. In this case, from their actions - the fact that f/f dominates fandoms where female characters are centered and have interesting dynamics - we know that they are telling the truth.

Whether there exists a "contingent" that does not is a largely unfalsifiable claim that does not really bear discussing, as a more significant number clearly do want exactly what they said they want, even though making female characters more interesting/centering them will do nothing for those who engage with derivative works for the other aforementioned reasons (fantasy, projection, exploration with and onto male bodies, etc.).

To be honest the only time I've ever seen the "contingent" you describe being angry that a male should have been the lead instead is from misogynistic male-dominated fanspaces, not yaoi fans.