fandomsecrets | [ SECRET POST #1005 ]

[ SECRET POST #1005 ]

⌈ Secret Post #1005 ⌋

Warning: Some secrets are NOT worksafe and may contain SPOILERS.

101.

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102.

[Albert Ellis/Carl Rogers]

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103.

[Soul Eater]

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104.

[Loony Toons]

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105.

[Glee]

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106.

[Dreamcatcher]

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107.

[Dollhouse]

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108.

[Air Force One]

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109.

[Folklore]

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110.

[Final Fantasy 9/Phoenix Wright/Mega Man/Gurren Lagann]

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111.

[Patrick Stewart/Jeremy Northam/Hugh Laurie/Cary Grant]

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112. [too big]

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113.

[07-Ghost]

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114.

[Supernatural]

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115.

[Charm School]

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116.

[Avatar]

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117.

[Bosom Buddies]

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118.

[Fame]

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119.

[X-Factor]

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120.

[Kev and Alice]

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121.

[Tsubasa: Reservoir Chronicle]

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122.

[Scott Gairdner]

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123.

[Zero Punctuation, Guitar Hero World Tour, Neon Genesis Evangelion]

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124.

[Questionable Content]

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125.

[Homeward Bound]

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126.

[Supernatural/Pita-Ten]

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127.

[Lena Headey]

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128.

[Veronica Mars]

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129.

[Last Days, deleted scene]

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130.

[Supernatural, The Amazing Race]

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131.

[The Dresden Files]

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132.

[Song of Ice and Fire]

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133.

[The Vampire Diaries]

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134.

[Supernatural]

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135.

[Juno]

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136.

[Elijah Wood]

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137.

[Life on Mars]

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138.

[Days of Our Lives]

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139.

[Good Omens]

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140.

[The Mentalist]

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141.

[Supernatural]

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142.

[Lie to Me]

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143.

[Supernatural]

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144.

[Burn Notice]

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145.

[Fullmetal Alchemist]

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146.

[3rd Rock from the Sun]

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147.

[Supernatural]

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148.

[Dr. Horrible's Sing-Along Blog]

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149.

[Song of Ice and Fire]

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150.

[Gyro Gearloose/Uncle Scrooge]

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151. http://i37.tinypic.com/acwnrc.png
[porn... I think?, A Mate]

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152.

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153.

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154.

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155.

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156.

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157.

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158.

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159.

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160.

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161.

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162.

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163.

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164.

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165.

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166.

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167.

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168.

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169.

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170.

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172.

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174.

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176.

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177.

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178.

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179.

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180.

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181.

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182.

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183.

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184.

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185.

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186.

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187.

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188.

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189.

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190.

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191.

Notes:

New affiliates I forgot to announce!

wow_secrets - for all you World of Warcrafters.
Accompanying

startrek_secret,

st_secrets_arc - all the ST secrets from FS in a convenient archive!

Secrets Left to Post: 10 pages, 250 secrets from Secret Submission Post #144.
Secrets Not Posted: [ 0 - broken links ], [ 1 2 - not!secrets ], [ 1 - not!fandom ], [ 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 - too big ], [ 0 - repeat ].
Current Secret Submissions Post: here.
Suggestions, comments, and concerns should go here.

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149. http://i34.tinypic.com/taofon.jpg
[Song of Ice and Fire]

...who?

Arya, I'd guess.

Oh. I didn't know she was that popular.

Arya never struck me as Sueish... yes, she has a ~tragic past~ but it doesn't become over the top because she's been a POV character since book one and she's not omgamazing and superspeshul like a Sue, nor does everyone love her. And she's rapidly heading for sociopathy, imo. She's too human to be a Sue.

Dany is a completely different type of character than Arya, and has different strengths. I applaud Arya's sheer willpower to survive at all costs, whereas Dany is growing into a ruler, one to possibly make Rhaegar proud.

I agree about her not being sueish. But I do find her hella annoying. God, how many tom-boyish princesses can the fictional world hold? It's not even a new spin on the trope either.

Oh, I agree. Arya definitely isn't my favorite character, I was just giving my opinion on why I don't think she's a Sue.

captcha: narwhal NOW

Dany and that other character (was she even a princess? the one from the sea people? too many characters) are really tomboyish, though. Badass, yes, but still very feminine.

You mean aren't very tomboyish, right?

Idk, Asha is a bit of tomboy, but not the same way as Arya.

Aren't, yes. I sometimes skip words.

Yeah, I don't really have any problem with those characters, just Arya.

Tomboy, yes, but princess? Not sure where you're getting that.

Princess, as in daughter of a monarch or someone of great importance. If you want to be technical about it, then "Lady." To be more specific, what ticks me off is how she's a Tomboy that has to rebel against being a Lady (like her sister Sansa). I think the way it's being approached in this particular work is cliché.

(no subject)

skelody.livejournal.com - 2009-10-07 00:53 (UTC) - Expand

I agree that this trope is overdone, and that's why I rolled my eyes at Arya in the beginning. But I think her storyline has been interesting and the sociopathy the other mouse mentioned makes her stick out a bit from other such characters.

There's a difference between:

A. Thinking you would do something
B. Wishing you could do something
C. Wishing you had done something, and
D. Being happy that someone else can do that something.

I'm willing to bet that everybody DOES take an Arya-esque stand against their own personal injustice, or charge through a situation doing exactly what they want to do, at least once in their lives. Most of us learn quickly that society says, sometimes very painfully, that we are not to do it again. Arya doesn't learn that, for a variety of reasons. I sincerely doubt even the come-uppance set up for ADWD is actually going to teach her that lesson (though it'll definitely teach her something). She provides wish fulfillment, yes, but at the cost of her own ease of living. Readers who like options A through C better than D should pay close attention to this.

I'll grant that Arya could have been a Sue. She was set up to be perfectly relate-able. Tom-boyish. Determined. An Underdog.

...and now she's a multi-murderer training to be an assassin.

I rest my case.

I always got the feeling that Arya was more of a deconstruction of the Tomboyish Princess. She was set up as the typical Gurl Power!!!!! character, and then given a double helping of Reality of what actually happens when you try to be 'unique' and 'rebellious' in that sort of world.

Yeah I agree with this, I've always felt that the introduction to Arya and Sansa was a bit unnecessarily obvious, but after that they both get their own stories defined on their own terms, and I think both of them go far beyond their original "types".

I don't agree with the Sueish thing, but I do think Arya is one of the less tolerable characters from this series.

I'm not personally a fan of Arya's character, however, I really don't see where you're getting 'Mary Sue' from. I particularly don't see why Arya meets Mary Sue standards, but not Dany.

- all of the Stark children have a tragic past, which they (to varying degrees) overcome. Hell, I'd argue that the majority of GRRM's characters have a tragic past, so this doesn't make much sense as a defining point (unless you subsequently read the majority of characters as Mary/Gary Stus).
- probably the defining characteristic of a Mary Sue, going by most descriptions, is the whole 'special snowflake' issue. Now, arguably, Arya's current training with the Faceless Men could fall under this category. However, I fail to see the logic of suggesting this alone makes Arya a Mary Sue, when Dany: is fawned over by the majority of male characters that she encounters, is the last of her family, has silver hair and violet eyes, and controls dragons (even if they are baby ones). ***Note: I wouldn't call Dany a Mary Sue either, necessarily, however I do question the notion that Arya could be classed as a Mary Sue while Dany is not.

IMHO, there's nothing wrong with simply disliking Arya's character or feeling that she exists for wish fulfillment (either for the author or the fans). However, I find fandom's tendency to masquerade opinion in the guise of a much-hated trope to be intellectually lazy.

She starts out as the "plucky tomboy princess" cliche in the first book, I'll grant you that, but... did you miss the part where she got horribly traumatized and is now really messed up? I don't think we're supposed to think it's awesome and badass!1!1 when she kills people; I think we're supposed to be disturbed that a little kid who started out well-adjusted is now so violent and maladjusted.

You're free to find her annoying, but please don't call her a Sue just because she isn't your cup of tea.

I agree about the non-sue part, but I don't think we're supposed to be that disturbed by Arya's violent behavior. Considering everything else that goes on in that world, it just seems like it's par for the course.

I still think she fulfills that "plucky tomboy princess" cliché. Right now she's on her little quest, sure it seems darker, but only because of the fictional world it's in, not because its a conscious subversion of the trope.

Considering everything else that goes on in that world, it just seems like it's par for the course.

Well yeah, but a lot of the stuff that goes on in that world, especially during war-time IS disturbing and I would be very very surprised if we're not meant to see it that way.

I think we as fandom need to establish the definition of Mary Sue. To me, this means a character that fulfills one or more of the following:
a) Overthetop skills and no significant weaknesses
b) It is the author's fantasy to be this person
c) Most of the other characters like them for no apparent reason

Arya doesn't fulfill any of those. It's fine if you don't like the character, but she's a 10 year old (or whatever her age is, I don't remember) psychopath. HOW is she a Mary Sue?

Since when did having an ever-so-tragic past make a character a Mary Sue? Depending on how the character's history is played, that can be a flaw, yes, but it's an entirely different flaw. Say they're cliche, or wangsty, but... nnnnngth. I'll get off my soapbox now.

I do like Arya, she's one of my favourites.

But I ADORE Dany :-)

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