[ SECRET POST #1005 ]

[case]

⌈ Secret Post #1005 ⌋

Warning: Some secrets are NOT worksafe and may contain SPOILERS.

101.


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102.
[Albert Ellis/Carl Rogers]


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103.
[Soul Eater]


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104.
[Loony Toons]


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105.
[Glee]


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106.
[Dreamcatcher]


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107.
[Dollhouse]


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108.
[Air Force One]


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109.
[Folklore]


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110.
[Final Fantasy 9/Phoenix Wright/Mega Man/Gurren Lagann]


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111.
[Patrick Stewart/Jeremy Northam/Hugh Laurie/Cary Grant]


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112. [too big]


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113.
[07-Ghost]


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114.
[Supernatural]


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115.
[Charm School]


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116.
[Avatar]


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117.
[Bosom Buddies]


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118.
[Fame]


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119.
[X-Factor]


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120.
[Kev and Alice]


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121.
[Tsubasa: Reservoir Chronicle]


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122.
[Scott Gairdner]


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123.
[Zero Punctuation, Guitar Hero World Tour, Neon Genesis Evangelion]


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124.
[Questionable Content]


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125.
[Homeward Bound]


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126.
[Supernatural/Pita-Ten]


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127.
[Lena Headey]


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128.
[Veronica Mars]


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129.
[Last Days, deleted scene]


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130.
[Supernatural, The Amazing Race]


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131.
[The Dresden Files]


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132.
[Song of Ice and Fire]


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133.
[The Vampire Diaries]


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134.
[Supernatural]


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135.
[Juno]


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136.
[Elijah Wood]


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137.
[Life on Mars]


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138.
[Days of Our Lives]


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139.
[Good Omens]


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140.
[The Mentalist]


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141.
[Supernatural]


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142.
[Lie to Me]


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143.
[Supernatural]


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144.
[Burn Notice]


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145.
[Fullmetal Alchemist]


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146.
[3rd Rock from the Sun]


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147.
[Supernatural]


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148.
[Dr. Horrible's Sing-Along Blog]


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149.
[Song of Ice and Fire]


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150.
[Gyro Gearloose/Uncle Scrooge]


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151. http://i37.tinypic.com/acwnrc.png
[porn... I think?, A Mate]


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152.


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153.


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154.


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155.


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156.


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157.


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158.


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159.


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160.


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161.


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162.


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163.


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164.


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165.


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166.


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167.


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168.


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169.


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170.


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171.


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172.


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173.


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174.


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175.


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176.


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177.


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178.


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179.


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180.


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181.


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182.


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183.


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184.


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185.


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186.


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187.


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188.


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189.


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190.


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191.



Notes:

New affiliates I forgot to announce!
wow_secrets - for all you World of Warcrafters.
Accompanying startrek_secret, st_secrets_arc - all the ST secrets from FS in a convenient archive!

Secrets Left to Post: 10 pages, 250 secrets from Secret Submission Post #144.
Secrets Not Posted: [ 0 - broken links ], [ 1 2 - not!secrets ], [ 1 - not!fandom ], [ 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 - too big ], [ 0 - repeat ].
Current Secret Submissions Post: here.
Suggestions, comments, and concerns should go here.

Comments

[zanzou-chan.livejournal.com]

No, what got Lucifer into trouble was trying to put his own will over God's and not love on the human train.

Emotion is obviously not something the angels feel the need to stamp out-- Uriel and Zachariah as both PRIME examples of angels letting their emotions out to play, and Raphael certainly was also rocking the wrath boat. The whole point of the angels in SPN is that they AREN'T nice. Now, I can see Castiel trying to live outside that framework, and that's what he's trying to learn-- to be HUMAN. But when push comes to shove, when he's out of control he's been ANGRY, not defaulting back to this angelic nothingness.

I would really have to rewatch it to comment on it, but it seemed fairly standard end of the world hope for future/there's something more out there talk, and while none of that, I admit, has to have anything to do with Buddhism, that doesn't mean he wasn't engaging in that sort of principle in other ways. (THOUGH OBVIOUSLY NOT IN THE NOT HARMING OTHERS PART OF IT, lol demon killing.)

And really, I didn't get that impression. But! That's just me. And frankly, I would enjoy that if that's what they were trying to say, because I would enjoy beating wuss!Cas out of fandom's existence.

[sessile29.livejournal.com]

Yeah, Lucifer got fucking pissed he was supposed to bow down to the human, and acted like a jealous lover when God gave him an ultimatum about it. Sounds like a case of wrath there. :)

Uriel, Zachariah, and even Raphael are not the examples par excellence as far as angelic behavior: Uriel was working in league with the devil, and Zach and Raph obviously feel high enough on the ladder to be beyond standard protocol. But Castiel was there to embody Heaven's divine orders and nothing more, and what touched him off was seeing everything get fubar'ed around him and his rather close interactions with Dean.

Go rewatch future!Cas' spiel (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=75eSdBKdayo). It seriously has nothing to do with anything.

[zanzou-chan.livejournal.com]

Yes, but you have to realise, they are also acting pretty much on par with how angels have acted ALL THROUGH TIME, in recorded tellings. Really, they are the standard model, not Castiel, and if that was the environment he lived/existed in for thousands of years, that's what he knows, that's part of his default setting. We've even SEEN Castiel be wrathful, and those moments have always been great, great moments. And his advantage seems to more be his continued faith in God/God's plan/the ability to think for himself about what God would actually want, NOT some innate innocence of spirit. Angels are warriors, not children, after all.

;) Watching X-Files, sorry.

[sessile29.livejournal.com]

Yeah, angels aren't nice and destroy half the world in Revelations, but that's still at God's behest. As far as them being specifically pissy or scornful - that all comes from the Show. Castiel getting upset comes in very specific instances: whenever his faith in God gets belittled. But emotions on the whole are new to him, and that does lead to an "innocence of spirit".

And there is something Cas does say that is undeniably creepy: as the girls are getting "washed up for the orgy," he comments as they pass, "... all so beautiful...." with a huge leer on his face. He is very much viewing women as objects by that point.

[zanzou-chan.livejournal.com]

..I wouldn't say so. Wrathful angels are pretty much par for the course in mythology-- possibly because they're messengers from god, and god's message isn't always sunshine and roses. >_>;

I wouldn't agree-- right at the start of season 4, we saw Castiel being emotional-- wrathful-- at the idea of Dean not participating as per his proper place (as per what he believed were God's instructions). Castiel ISN'T innocent of spirit-- he's NOT innocent. He's ignorant of the ways of living as a human, which is not at all the same thing. He's lived his life condemning sin, being a step away from it-- but he's realizing that even as an angel, that step isn't really there at all, and they were just fooling themselves in thinking they're so much better, so much.... more full of good.

Shrug, I didn't see it that way. Telling women they're beautiful doesn't sound like he's objectifying them-- it sounds like he's appreciating them for what they are, and telling them that. And really? That could be seen as manipulation, because it is SURELY something women like being told.

[sessile29.livejournal.com]

Yeah, but it's not their message, it's God's message, so it's not necessary for them to feel it, which is what is seems like the Show is going for. I think it's obvious that the Show posits that showing emotion without regard for humanity is a very bad thing. Raphael grieves for being abandoned, but the fact he expresses that grief by wanting to destroy half of humanity in the process is wrong.

Castiel's anger at Dean in 4x02 only comes about when Dean starts making fun of his and the other angels' efforts at staving off the Witnesses (in other words, their attempt to God's work).

"Bang up job so far. Stellar work with the Witnesses. That's nice."
"We tried. There are other battles. Other Seals. Some will win, some will lose. This one, we lost.

And then Dean scoffs, and Cas lays into him. :) People have posited that Cas was angry at Dean for treating the deaths of his brothers and sisters so lightly, which is plausible as well - we're trying to carry out the will of God and you're gonna scoff at the deaths of my family that occurred in the process? Lemme lay the smackdown on you now. And Cas' subsequent shows of emotion have all been in the context of trying to do something good - for Dean, for humanity.

But I don't think Cas has felt the full force of emotion before, not like people do. He knows how things work amongst the humans, but he's slowly discovering what they mean.

His line about how beautiful they were just reinforces how false his speech is about "... a fragment of total perception... just one compartment... in that dragonfly eye of group mind. Now, the key to this total, shared perception is, um... surprisingly physical." Very much gobblygook, very much to get them in bed, very much supported by his comments on their physical appearance, which were very akin to an older man commenting on the supple youth of a girl. Cas was very much using his position as an religious authority to get sex and nothing else. If he had any belief in what he was saying, why were all his devotees young, attractive females? Why not people of all stripes if he were genuinely interested in sharing this "group mind"?

[zanzou-chan.livejournal.com]

I don't agree. It's really a matter of interpretation, but I see it as if the angels didn't feel what they were channeling from god-- that wrath-- that they would be merely empty vessels, and they very, very clearly are not. Nor were they ever crying over doing their jobs. NOR did God punish them until relatively recently, given the whole "2K ago God was still totally being active" (since we can't discount the New Testament and say it's just Old-Testament!God, given the shows strong ties with Revelations).

It's wrong to US that his grief is being expressed that way-- I wouldn't say that's god's problem at all. I would say god's problem has a lot more to do with the fact that Raphael is feeling that grief, which implies a lack of trust-- not what that grief makes him do.

I really don't see your point? I was saying, Castiel-- the closest we have to a "good" angel-- is clearly expressing his OWN anger, his own rage-- not God's. And it's not something foreign to him. What causes it isn't some outside source-- it's HIM. It's his rage. No one tells him to feel that way. The angels FEEL THOSE THINGS, no matter what the basis of those feelings are.

And like I said previously-- Castiel might have been mislabeling his emotions as something more seperate from himself than they are. Frankly, I've found Castiel's characterization to be a bit spotty-- to me, it's obvious there was a change mid-season involving him. Making those different parts of him work together is what I try to do-- and what that tells me is that Castiel is no innocent. He threatened to throw Dean back into hell. That's not nothing-- and it's certainly not something a person who is naive in the way fandom too-often portrays him as would do. It speaks of knowing how fear can drive people, and WHAT people would fear. He KNOWS about humanity-- maybe not personally, maybe no the modern version, but he's been watching them for thousands of years. We just don't have any curveballs to throw that he hasn't seen before.

....Wait. How does it reinforce how false the speech is, while at the same time the stuff he's saying is supporting his comments about their beauty? What?

Because young girls are more likely to follow that than seasoned and roughened hunters, frankly. There's no reason to think he doesn't have more followers in the camp-- to me, "orgy" implied more than just that little group he was talking to.

[ibroketuesday.livejournal.com]

I would really have to rewatch it to comment on it, but it seemed fairly standard end of the world hope for future/there's something more out there talk,

It didn't seem like that at all to me. He was going on about the "dragonfly eye" of perception and how the key to enlightenment is "surprisingly physical". He was using his position of spiritual authority to manipulate women into an orgy with him, and it was seriously skeevy.

[zanzou-chan.livejournal.com]

See, I was like O_o when he mentioned the orgy thing-- so until then, what he was talking about wasn't leading ME to orgy-ville at all. (I went into the episode with no spoilers other than "Dean will see the future 5 years from present", so that could be part of it.)

TL;DR I didn't hear anything innately creepy. And even your quotes, to me, don't seem innately creepy. *shrug*

[ibroketuesday.livejournal.com]

I think the creepiness lies in the distinction between whether Castiel believed what he was saying or not. If he truly felt that orgies were the way to enlightenment, and wanted to help those women along? Well, that's still kinda weird, but okay. But it became clear later, when he spoke to Dean in the car, that that wasn't why he was doing it. He wasn't being sincere in the least. He wanted to lose himself in sex, which also wouldn't have been creepy, except he used his status as a guru-type to get it. For me, there's an issue of consent here. These women consented to the orgy, yes, but they weren't aware he had no intention of making it a transcendental experience; he was just using them. Even without that, Castiel luring women with pretty lies and then convincing them to sleep with him, not out of mutual desire but out of their belief that he could provide them with spiritual enlightenment, skeeves me out.

[zanzou-chan.livejournal.com]

See, I think that's a totally valid reading of things-- and I even encourage it! Fandom needs to be aware that Castiel can be a total creeper!

But for me, I DID think he believed it, even if a little, despite the fact that he was also looking for an escape. Finding enlightenment when you take out the trash, sort of thing-- he wasn't looking for it when he went out to have mad orgies, but he found a little something of it despite that. Because even if it was just him finding a comfort in that sort of thing, isn't that enough, if he and the people he was with felt better about everything, afterwards? I don't see what makes that less of a religious experience than seeing Jesus on toast, that's for sure.

BASICALLY we're reading things different, and that's okay by me.