[ SECRET POST #6699 ]

[case]

⌈ Secret Post #6699 ⌋

Warning: Some secrets are NOT worksafe and may contain SPOILERS.


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(Great British Bake Off)



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12. [SPOILERS for Clair Obscur: Expedition 33]





















Notes:

Secrets Left to Post: 00 pages, 00 secrets from Secret Submission Post #957..
Secrets Not Posted: [ 0 - broken links ], [ 0 - not!secrets ], [ 0 - not!fandom ], [ 0 - too big ], [ 0 - repeat ].
Current Secret Submissions Post: here.
Suggestions, comments, and concerns should go here.

Comments

[fscom]

06. https://i.imgur.com/WrlW135.png

[dinogrrl]

They literally do not teach reading comprehension any more :/.

[(Anonymous)]

I think too many people in general have confused analysing something with just being dismissive.

[(Anonymous)]

I think overlooking the trauma and mental health is a holdover from generations past. The modern interpretation is wildly different than it was even in the 90s, never mind the 50s. I think it’s more accurate and makes the book far more relevant than ever before, but I don’t think the majority who read it 20+ years ago would really care.

[(Anonymous)]

I never had to read this particular classic in school (which is probably a good thing, it just doesn't seem like something I'd enjoy or get much out of), but you can have trauma and also be whiny - they aren't mutually exclusive. Someone can have totally legitimate complaints and things that should be talked through, but have it still come across as moaning. It has a lot to do with how it is expressed and the audience it is expressed to.

[(Anonymous)]

I guarantee you the people who call him and characters like him whiny are not looking at it with that kind of nuance, it's obvious from my listening comprehension of the way they express their feelings about the whininess. If they acknowledge trauma and mental illness at all, they see it as mutually exclusive from whininess. Either you're traumatized and have a good reason to be that way, or you're whiny. You can't have both.

[(Anonymous)]

I recall the last discussion about this book: there was debate about whether Holden had depression or not, with a particular anon or group of them arguing that no, he didn't have depression, it was "just teen angst." As if teen angst isn't often caused by depression (which is often undiagnosed because it's brushed off as "just teen angst").

[(Anonymous)]

The driving force of his life is that his sibling died and he can't get over it. His entire fixation on the idea of being "the catcher in the rye" is that he wants to save someone in the way he could never possibly have saved his brother.

Someone who reads that and thinks, "this is just teen angst" is frankly kind of a moron.

[(Anonymous)]

He is sexist and I think that's just a fact, but I don't find it a deal breaker because 1) the worst it manifests is saying shitty things about women in particular, 2) it is I think an extension of being a general misanthrope and 3) he's not real and I like plenty of fictional characters with realistic flaws; sexist attitudes and other types of bigotry aren't some special unforgivable evil to me all by themselves.

[(Anonymous)]

There are a lot of readers now who need their main characters to be morally upstanding and have the same perspectives as them. The same readers seem to also need a near-fourth wall break when it comes to aspects of a narrative that explore or depict unsavory things. If the author doesn't have someone look at the "camera" and say (for example) "racism is wrong," they tend to think or suspect that the author is endorsing it.

[(Anonymous)]

... he's a teenager. He's a stupid, naive teenager who hasn't had much experience with the world as a whole yet and so his opinions are colored by that.

[(Anonymous)]

But don't you know that if you're like that as a teenager, it means that you're inherently a bad person, and will always be like that, and that any change you undergo should be regarded with suspicion because it's likely just you pretending? /s

[meadowphoenix]

he's a misogynist and a misanthrope, that's actually the most common combination for teenagers in my experience.

and you can think holden is whiny without missing his issues. there are plenty of readers who find holden whiny because they project onto him their dislike of themselves in a similar state...which is something holden also does, and makes the "they're missing the point" almost satirical.