fandomsecrets | [ SECRET POST #1107 ]

[ SECRET POST #1107 ]

⌈ Secret Post #1107 ⌋

Warning: Some secrets are NOT worksafe and may contain SPOILERS.

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Notes:

No need to leave comments like "HERE AGAIN SINCE IT WAS FORGOTTEN THE LAST TIME I SUBMITTED IT," please. It was not forgotten. You submitted it three times to the same submissions post.

Secrets Left to Post: 18 pages, 448 secrets from Secret Submission Post #159.
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Current Secret Submissions Post: here.
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Flat | Top-Level Comments Only

"I don’t know how well women come out of Coupling," says Moffat, the son of a headmaster, who taught English in Greenock before following his original writerly instincts and scoring his first success with Press Gang. "There’s this issue you’re not allowed to discuss: that women are needy. Men can go for longer, more happily, without women. That’s the truth. We don’t, as little boys, play at being married - we try to avoid it for as long as possible. Meanwhile women are out there hunting for husbands."

...

So, post-New Man, post-Lad, where does the male of the species stand now? "Well, the world is vastly counted in favour of men at every level - except if you live in a civilised country and you’re sort of educated and middle-class, because then you’re almost certainly junior in your relationship and in a state of permanent, crippled apology. Your preferences are routinely mocked. There’s a huge, unfortunate lack of respect for anything male."

Seriously, Moffat?

This is probably why I don't read/watch interviews. Sigh.

BRB hunting for a husband.

Yeah it is really better to stop listening when he starts talking, ngl.

Yeah he's a bit of a douche. Well, a lot of a douche. But I don't really find fault with his writing, so there you have it.

That's how I feel as well. There's some iffy stuff in his episodes, but there's iffy stuff in pretty much everything, and I don't find his episodes any iffy-er than usual in that sense.

Liz and I assume he is like Michael Scott. He is actually pretty good at his job, but he's still an asshole.

Girl in the Fireplace was especially iffy. If S5 is like that, then I will not be impressed at all.

Mostly what gets me is people not even willing to give the season a chance to see where he takes it. But we've both ranted about this before.

What did you think was iffy about the Girl in the Fireplace just out of curiousity? Cause I didn't see it as sexist myself, Reinette was a kick ass and intelligent woman, definitly the equal of the Doctor and willing to sacrifice herself for the good of her court.

I found it a little odd that Reinette would be in love with someone she'd only seen briefly two or three times in her life, but mostly what got me is that the Doctor ignored Rose and Mickey the whole episode and then essentially abandoned them on a 51st century spaceship. Reinette was a good character for what she was, but I found her rather one-sided and could detect hints of Moffat's "women are needy" idea about her.

See that's interesting cause I saw it completely differently, I would say it was certainly a case of love at first sight (And seriously, this is the Doctor, he's pretty dashing lmao.) but the Doctor ignoring Rose and Mickey is more of a slight towards men being obsessed with women rather than anything else.

the Doctor ignoring Rose and Mickey is more of a slight towards men being obsessed with women rather than anything else.

...And I have issues with that; in general and also because it seems completely out of character for the Doctor.

It does seem out of character, but it's not associated with the supposed sexism Moffat is injecting into his episodes.

I actually didn't find it odd that Reinette would fall in love with him; it's a lot more logical than Martha falling in love with the Doctor a few hours after meeting him, really. Even though she only met him a few times, for her it spanned years and years. I mean, can you possibly imagine that meeting a mysterious and heroic man who saves you from a robot as a little girl and then disappears through a fireplace wouldn't make a big impression on you? I think it's reasonable to say that he was her first love, even though (probably because) she didn't know him. At the same time, it didn't control her whole life -- she had relationships with other men and a life of her own, obviously. That's why I like Moffat's women and romantic relationships, because it's much more mature and the women are more independent of their respective love interests.

but mostly what got me is that the Doctor ignored Rose and Mickey the whole episode and then essentially abandoned them on a 51st century spaceship.

I didn't like that too. But in later Moffat episodes I started to realize that the man really likes his own characters and sometimes has no idea what to do with that season's companions and even the Doctor. In "Girl In the Fireplace," he almost ignores Rose and Mickey. In "Blink" he shoves the Doctor and Martha back in time. In the last series, Donna was for the most part sitting in the corner quietly or living out some RPG.

It's like his thinking is, "I have a great sci-fi idea about this woman who goes up against these statue like assassins. Very Twilight Zonish. She has to use her wits and cunning. It will make for a great Doctor Who episode. Oh, wait, Doctor Who. I need to put the Doctor in there somewhere. Damn, how would I do that without spoiling my plot line? Knock him out cold? Nah. Cage him? No, he has the screwdriver. Ah! Send him back in time! That's it."

So, I don't see it really as sexist as much as limited thinking on his part.

In defense of Blink, I believe it evolved out of the need to not have the Doctor and Martha in it (I feel as though there is some specific Freema Agyeman-related reason as to why...) rather than Moffat writing them out from the beginning. Personally I never felt it was a cop-out, and it was interesting to see the story unfold from someone who isn't involved in the Doctor's life and (presumably) will never see him again.

I don't really feel like Moffat knows what to do with characters that he hasn't invented, which explains why he keep introducing new characters with his episodes (Jack, Reinette, River Song) and mostly ignoring the existing ones. But, like a few of us have said, this shouldn't be a problem in S5 because all the new characters will be his.

Re: "There’s a huge, unfortunate lack of respect for anything male."

http://users.livejournal.com/_thirty2flavors/ - 2010-01-17 03:25 (UTC) - Expand

Re: "There’s a huge, unfortunate lack of respect for anything male."

thickets.livejournal.com - 2010-01-17 15:34 (UTC) - Expand

Re: "There’s a huge, unfortunate lack of respect for anything male."

mekkio.livejournal.com - 2010-01-17 20:16 (UTC) - Expand

I personally hated 'Girl in the Fireplace', but that was more to do with the Doctor leaving Rose and Mickey to quite possibly die on a spaceship in the future than any sexism issues.

Not to say that there weren't sexism issues in that episode. There may well have been. I can't remember it terribly well.

I have issues with Moffat's episodes, but most of them are show-related, not social-issue related. GITF was probably the most iffy -- but then, if it was in season 3, I probably wouldn't have thought twice about it because lol, the Doctor would totally ditch Martha to go snog a hot blonde, so... I dunno.

The difference is that I think a lot of the time Moffat doesn't seem to realize when his characters are doing something less than stellar.

BUT we'll see. I'm still excited for season 5, and I don't think it'll be the most offensive thing since Supernatural or anything.

Poor Martha. It's sad because it's true.

I know what you mean. I love the story and atmosphere of Silence in the Library/Forest of the Dead except for River "DIAF" Song. Characterization is my big Moffat peeve, which hopefully will be resolved with 11 because he'll be free to have him play the romantic hero all he wants.

LIRL. Oh, Supernatural.

RIGHT? It automatically makes like five times more sense. Sucks for Martha.

Yeah, mostly it's characterisation and the treatment of companions with me, which I'm hoping will be fixed by Eleven (he can be like whatever Moffat wants!) and Amy (I am assuming he will like Amy enough to not want to shove her aside all the time). Also continuity of characterisation/etc, but again, when he's in control of the arc that shouldn't be an issue.

This. I think I'll live, but seriously, wtf, Moff?

BRB hunting for a husband

LMFAO

My, isn't he, um... special.

god, no wonder I completely avoid interviews and articles. (Though in this case it may be a useful heads-up so I can avoid this misogynist asshole's body of work, whether or not it's on a show I casually enjoy. Also, I thought Coupling was shitty.)

god, no wonder I completely avoid interviews and articles.

Same. I try to live in ignorance of whatever stupid shit comes out of various people's mouths, but context is useful to some degree...

Yeah, I've read that before and I hate it. At the same time, the Doctor Who episodes he has actually produced really don't seem to reflect that at all -- maybe because the female characters he creates for the show are intentionally written not to be like that. But I really do despise that quote. (I despise Coupling too, I still have a hard time reconciling the fact that the guy who created Sally Sparrow wrote that abomination ...)

It was there with Sally Sparrow too, though! I remember thinking grumpily to myself as the episode started, "Oh, but I bet she's just hunting for a husband, really". And then she met a bloke she fancied called Billy Shipton, and had the hilarious Freudian slip of introducing herself to him as "Sally Shipton." And I was all "OH MY GOD I DIDN'T THINK YOU'D ACTUALLY DO THAT."

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[ SECRET POST #1107 ]

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