[ SECRET POST #1107 ]

[case]

⌈ Secret Post #1107 ⌋

Warning: Some secrets are NOT worksafe and may contain SPOILERS.

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Notes:

No need to leave comments like "HERE AGAIN SINCE IT WAS FORGOTTEN THE LAST TIME I SUBMITTED IT," please. It was not forgotten. You submitted it three times to the same submissions post.

Secrets Left to Post: 18 pages, 448 secrets from Secret Submission Post #159.
Secrets Not Posted: [ 0 - broken links ], [ 1 2 3 4 5 6 - not!secrets ], [ 1 - not!fandom ], [ 1 2 3 4 5 - too big ], [ 1 2 - repeat ], [ 1 - take it to comments ], [ 1 2 - doing it wrong ], [ 1 - ships it ], [ 1 2 3 4 5 6 - posted twice ], [ 1 - text secret (PROTIP: YOUR SECRETS MUST GO ON AN IMAGE)], [ 1 - comment asking how to submit secrets (PROTIP: THERE IS AN FAQ)].
Current Secret Submissions Post: here.
Suggestions, comments, and concerns should go here.

Comments

[shinyopals.livejournal.com]

Yes I do.

But a) in knowing his opinions, I can't help but notice more and more how problematic his work is. Given the way he's written the episodes he's already done, I think it does show.

And b) I... don't want to. I'm not marching on the BBC demanding he be hung drawn and quartered but I'm sticking to my opinion that people who say that sort of thing shouldn't be encouraged and not turning in or buying any merch.

[eternalwings.livejournal.com]

Except I have seen the episodes he's written and I don't see the problem, in fact in all of the episodes they seem to have a strong female character so I really don't understand it.

[(Anonymous)]

Yeah but you don't see a problem with the stuff he said in that interview, so you're too stupid for your comments on sexism to be considered of any worth.

[eternalwings.livejournal.com]

Except what he thinks =/= he writes, there isn't a problem with his episodes. In fact in all of them it's women who save the fucking day so I'd like to see how you pick up his sexist views in that.

[thickets.livejournal.com]

Okay, that's just rude. :/ That's exactly the same sort of condescending bullshit I find offensive in Moffat's quotes, so congratulations on being a hypocrite, shitface.

[mekkio.livejournal.com]

Wow, was that really necessary?

[(Anonymous)]

I don't see his female characters as particularly strong. Reinette basically spent her whole life pining for the Doctor (of course, supposedly that's not all she did, but that's all we really see in the episode). River Song ended up in an afterlife where she wasn't a successful archaeologist or anything like that, but a mother to two fake kids. Sally Sparrow saw herself marrying Shipman two minutes after she first met him.

I'm not saying all this is horribly sexist or anything like that, but to me it's hardly an example of strong female characters.

[eternalwings.livejournal.com]

Reinette was willing to sacrifice herself for the entire court, River song actually sacrificed herself for the Doctor and the rest of the people in the VR and Sally Sparrow saved the TARDIS all on her own.

I don't see it as sexist and I really can't see how it could be, nor could I see how they were weak. In fact it's definitly a theme in DW with women saving the universe on a regular basis not just the Doctor.

[(Anonymous)]

I really don't see what a woman sacrificing herself (especially if it's for the man she loves) has to do with being a strong character. But I guess everyone has their own definition of a "strong female character", and since ours are obviously very different, we'll just have to agree to disagree.

[eternalwings.livejournal.com]

I would say someone willing to give their life for something else as being strong. That's a hell of a sacrifice.

[(Anonymous)]

Yes, and sacrificing yourself for others is seen as something women are traditionally supposed to do.

[eternalwings.livejournal.com]

Since when? Traditionally it was actually men who were sent to war to sacrifice themselves for their wives and country, during the titanic it was women and children first.

[(Anonymous)]

You have a point there - I guess I was thinking more about sacrifice in other areas than about giving your life for someone. Moffat's women still don't strike me as particularly strong for DW standards, but like I said, it's obviously a matter of opinion.

[ladytinyhelm.livejournal.com]

I see it as generally more of a mental/emotional sacrifice. As a woman you are expected to give your time and energy to the desires and dreams of your husband/children/other assorted family/friends as opposed to your own. But River didn't really do that, so it's not very relevant to the thread.

[fireholly.livejournal.com]

PROTIP: Jesus.

[magicbulletgirl.livejournal.com]

From what I've gathered and watched, the problem with "Girl in the Fireplace" was that she spent her whole life pining for the Doctor.

Yes, she might have been brave but, because of what I just mentioned, she came off as bland and blind. She met the Doctor as a 10 year old, and doesn't meet him again until her early 20's. She sees him only a couple more times until she's 37. She was really only brave because she was sure the Doctor would come and save her.

She idealized the Doctor so much (as did the Doctor her) that's she's really impossible to take seriously by the end of it. It actually comes off as the worst 48 hour fling I've ever seen.

The same goes for Riversong. She may be intelligent and come off as the Doctor's equal in a way that his other companions might not, but she becomes just a cookie cutter character of who Moffat thinks the Doctor should be with.

Accomplished, educated, strong analytical skills and with striking good features; they serve as characters to make the Doctor's companions look stupid, bumbling and inelegant.

I think you need to examine your definition of weak characters. Rose, Martha and Donna - with their flaws - are so much more interesting.

[eternalwings.livejournal.com]

Woah I did not say they weren't strong, in fact Donna is my favourite character so please don't assume so with no evidence.

My point simply was, anyone pointing out that his female characters are sexist when every single one of them saved the bloody world in some way is very superficial. As is calling someone bland and blind just because she is in love.

[magicbulletgirl.livejournal.com]

Read: She was only brave because she knew the Doctor was coming.
Doctor coming = Doctor saving her.
Doctor saving her = why she could be brave.
Also, I don't think she was really in love. Like I said, she idealized him so much, she believed she was. They barely even knew each other.

And just because they "save the world" (they really don't) doesn't mean they aren't characters written from a sexist pov. Try actually proving that before saying that over and over again. Oh wait, you can't.

[ivydoor.livejournal.com]

*hardcore Donna fangirl alert*

Okay, let's take Donna's fate in Moffat's episodes. She was shunted to the side for the majority of part one, and barely has any interaction after River shows up. At one point (one of the few "Donna moments" of this episode) she literally stops in the middle of the action to shop. Because women liek to shop, LOL AMIRITE?

Then in the second part she becomes part of a computer simulation in which she's married and has kids. *points back to his comment about women being needy and only wanting marriage out of life* She meets the other girl on the team (can't recall her name right now) who says she was pretty but dumb in reality, and in the computer she's smart but ugly. Because women can't be both. Everybody knows sexy girls aren't smart and ugly girls are always really smart to make up for what they're lacking.

And that's just the beginning of the things I can cite as his sexism bleeding into his work. Sorry. Saving the world doesn't negate the sexist way he portrays them.

[magicbulletgirl.livejournal.com]

Thank you. Luff you. Friended.
*is also a big Donna fan*

[ivydoor.livejournal.com]

*waves hello* Friending in return!

[goatsfoot.livejournal.com]

Good points.

[hanelissar.livejournal.com]

OMG yes this so hard I think I love you.

I watched 'Forest of the Dead' for the first time on iPlayer and I remember after the line (not a direct quote because it's been a while, sorry) 'I am a genius, but unloved' I actually had to pause it to gape that they actually put that line in a tea-time family show.

I mean, okay, she got pretty immensely deformed and I expect lots of little children screamed when she whipped off her veil. But still, the implication of that line is that if you're ugly/deformed it doesn't matter how smart and awesome you are personality-wise, YOU WILL BE UNLOVED FOREVER. (And I think her name was something like Miss Evangelista?)

And isn't it kind of the inescapable point of DW that the world has to be saved? So there was no way they weren't going to be at least a little involved in saving the world, whether Moffat wanted them to or not.

Also, Sally Sparrow? Very cool character but was really pretty passive the entire episode. She didn't 'save the world and the Doctor' - she did what the Doctor had orchestrated already. Apart from going to the house at the start I'm struggling to think of anything she really did off her own bat without prompting from someone else. Which kind of negates any 'she single-handedly saved the Doctor and the world!' comments.

[shinyopals.livejournal.com]

Well yeah, I don't expect everyone to see it the same. I mean, I could go into detail about it if you really want that (although given that I'm really not supposed to be on LJ because I've got exams soon if you did want that, I'd probably link you to a post from my LJ that I keep handy because I recognised a while ago I talk a lot about this sort of thing and I don't always have the time to do so!) but I'm pretty sure you're not going to change my mind and I don't know if I'm going to change yours so the whole thing might be a bit futile!

(Seriously, normally I'd be leaving you a never ending comment about now, but exam in two days!)