fandomsecrets | [ SECRET POST #1114 ]

⌈ Secret Post #1114 ⌋

Warning: Some secrets are NOT worksafe and may contain SPOILERS.

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Notes:

Secrets Left to Post: 16 pages, 382 secrets from Secret Submission Post #160.
Secrets Not Posted: [ 0 - broken links ], [ 1 2 - not!secrets ], [ 1 2 3 - not!fandom ], [ 1 2 3 4 5 - too big ], [ 1 2 3 4 5 (different image, same text) - repeat ], [ 1 2 3 4 - doing it wrong ], [ 1 - take it to comments ].
Current Secret Submissions Post: here.
Suggestions, comments, and concerns should go here.

Flat | Top-Level Comments Only

Well, I apologize for the giant shit storm this secret caused. I wasn't expecting that so many people would take it the wrong way.
First, I think a lot of people are underestimating just what objectification is. Objectification is when a person (or in this case character) is devalued into the point of being seen as a sex doll rather than a person. Objectification is far, far, more extreme than sexualizing a character. I have nothing against people finding a character hot, or drooling over a character.
My problem is that in Fandom, discussion of a character's background, motivations, etc have taken a back seat to discussions of who they should be bumming.
I'm not saying this does not happen to female characters, no, I'm aware than women have it FAR worse. Yes, I AM a women, and I AM a feminist (I'm even a volunteer sexual health/women's center). I just feel that although the objectification against women is often talked about, it is highly overlooked for men, which is anti-feminist in itself.

Again, I apologize for the shit storm. Also, this is entirely just my opinion, but it is how I see much of fandom.

I would say that the discussion of sex overshadowing the discussion of actually plot-related things is something that happens to EVERY character who's hot. The reason it seems like it happens to men more on LJ is because LJ is mostly comprised of straight females.

basically it's less of a problem with objectifying men and more of a problem of everyone being obsessed with sex.

oh and just to clarify, i'm TOTALLY OKAY WITH TALKING ABOUT SEX ALL THE TIME haha. just trying to empathize with OP's POV.

Oh OP please don't apologize!! What you see as a shitstorm is actually one of the more interesting and provocative discussions about this that I've seen in a while (mind you, I don't get out much). I definitely see your point in your 'secret' but the nuances a lot of others are adding are really making me think about this issue a lot more than I had previously. Which is cool. So, thanks, actually.

My problem is that in Fandom, discussion of a character's background, motivations, etc have taken a back seat to discussions of who they should be bumming.

So... is this about shipping?

Perhaps you missed it the first time around: The Internet is for porn.

Do you really see no difference between objectification in PWP fanfic written by women* about men, and objectification in any of the zillions of porn sites which cater pretty much exclusively to heterosexual males?

Also get back to me when men are raped and abused IRL by women to the extent that women are raped and abused by men, and then I'll try my damnedest to give a shit about a discussion of the objectification of men and how it might hurt their feelings, poor things.

* I realize that men write fanfic as well, and that fanfic isn't all slash, but that's tangential to the point I'm trying to make.

ugh, that should be objectification of women in any of the zillions of porn sites, but maybe that was self-evident.

I've never claimed that problems men face in our society are ANYWHERE near what women go through. Women's right are a huge issue to me, and I work hard promoting them when ever I can through volunteer work and attending lobbying events, and even protesting. So please don't try and suggest that I'm downplaying women's interests by saying this.
What I was getting at is that if people want to speak about feminism which is gender EQUALITY, we must address how the issue effects both genders.

It's not the fact that it's "hurting men's feelings" (which I never suggested), it's the fact that when a male character is treated as sex object NO ONE seems to find this problematic, but people DO speak out against the same treatment of female characters.
Again, part of it is just semantics, people cannot truly call themselves a "feminist" unless they work for rights of both genders.

And no, I don't like to ascribe to the belief that the "Internet is for porn", because it suggests that someone cannot join a fandom just for the sake of you, know, being part of a fandom, but that fandom only exist for the creation of porn.

OK, I'll back off a little because I realize I'm being an asshole (anonymity on the Internet brings that out in me). And the point you were trying to make was more about fandom than IRL feminist issues, so I'll leave those alone.

But to be frank, I don't find it all that problematic that men are objectified in fandom. I just can't take it all that seriously, because I don't see that there are any lasting harmful side effects to living, breathing men. I don't think porn is harmful to women either*, even though women are certainly objectified by it - I made that comparison because objectification in the former is miniscule compared to objectification in the latter. Which is another reason I find the issue of "male objectification" in fandom ultimately unimportant.

*The porn industry, however, can be harmful to women working in it - that's straying into IRL territory again though.

IAWTC.

Um, fuck off? I'm all for radical feminism. Like, I don't think marriage should be legal because its a hold over practice from when men could legally sell their daughters. But please, don't call yourself a feminist and through around all that 'men are evil' BS. Men have been just as shoved, forced,a nd pushed into their own little boxes called gender rolls as the rest of us. So please, kindly grow a brain, and look at all of the boys that get beaten because they want to do ballet and tell me that yeah, women are the only ones who have ever been discriminated against because of their gender. Go ahead. Try it.

[ SECRET POST #1114 ]

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