[ SECRET POST #1148 ]

[case]

⌈ Secret Post #1148 ⌋

Warning: Some secrets are NOT worksafe and may contain SPOILERS.

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142.
[Zachary Quinto]


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[Stargate SG-1]


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[Farmville]


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[Blazblue: Calamity Trigger]


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[Death Note]


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[John Barrowman]


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[AKA: Lies are like wishes]


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155. [SPOILERS for Lost]



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156. [SPOILERS for Dr Who]



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157. [SPOILERS for One Flew Over the Cuckoo's Nest]



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158. [SPOILERS for Glass Feet]



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159. [SPOILERS for One Piece]



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160. [SPOILERS for Mass Effect]








Notes:

Secrets Left to Post: 00 pages, 000 secrets from Secret Submission Post #164.
Secrets Not Posted: [ 0 - broken links ], [ 0 - not!secrets ], [ 0 - not!fandom ], [ 1 - too big ], [ 0 - repeat ], [ 1 - ships it ], [ 1 - would hit it ], [ 1 - take it to comments ], [ 1 - personal attack ].
Current Secret Submissions Post: here.
Suggestions, comments, and concerns should go here.

Comments

[(Anonymous)]

Is wondering if you're crazy really so strange as to be unbelievable as a genuine secret?

No, but it didn't really fit in with the rest of the secret. Racism, sexism, selfishness are all genuine moral issues, being crazy is not. Neither is being uneducated, so it made me wonder if they're really questioning their morality, or just complaining that fandom made them feel bad.

[(Anonymous)]

Oh, I see what you're saying now. I read the "crazy" bit as "is there something wrong with me that I don't see these things that other people think are totally obvious?" but your reading also makes sense.

[(Anonymous)]

"You're so special"

"Shine on, crazy diamond"

"Wow, you're fucking stupid"

"What are you, twelve?"

You don't think, after having phrases like that thrown at you for not automatically agreeing with something someone has said about those genuine moral issues, that it's plausible someone might start wondering if those people have some point? You don't think, after being made to feel like a stupid idiot for not getting things right away, that it makes any sense for someone to have doubts about that?

[(Anonymous)]

... and this is why people thought that the OP was whining.

[(Anonymous)]

And this is why people think you're hateful.

Oh no! Someone feels upset about being treated like shit. How dare they those whiny privileged bigots

[(Anonymous)]

Man, that's what you think hateful is? You really need to get some perspective.

[(Anonymous)]

Perspective... okay, no, having people on the internet chew you out is not the same as suffering from prejudice everyday. I know. I never said otherwise. But bullying is bullying, no matter the reasons or extent.

[(Anonymous)]

Now "you're why people think the OP was whining," is bullying? You really do need a thicker skin.

[(Anonymous)]

What?

No, that's what this is:

"You're so special"

"Shine on, crazy diamond"

"Wow, you're fucking stupid"

"What are you, twelve?"

Snarking, mocking, dogpiling, congratulating one another for the best way to shut someone down.

[(Anonymous)]

Yeah, you posted a whole bunch of quotes from nowhere, without any context and I'm supposed to automatically agree that it's bullying?

[(Anonymous)]

omg do your research I'm not here to educate you!!11!

Try hanging out at [Bad username or site: @ livejournal.com] for awhile.

Not the same anon

[(Anonymous)]

You clearly haven't been on FS for very long.

[fierceawakening.livejournal.com]

Yeah, this. I agree with a lot of "calling out," but I don't see why treating people like shit and making special insults to call them is helpful. Rage is fun, and being oppressed can cause a lot of it. But I'm sick of the way "sometimes 'watch your tone' gets used to silence people, so I refuse to 'watch my tone'" gets turned into "I get to call you whatever names I want and say you should only feel hurt "for a second" when I'm berating you.

That's the same kind of thinking some abusive folks use. "I'm not tearing you down." "This will only sting for a second." "You're so weak."

Stop it.

And yes, I am getting all tone argument on people's ass. OH NO.

[(Anonymous)]

HDU you're evil and bad and you should feel bad.



In case I am not obvious enough, that was sarcasm. I've been failing at it a lot lately.

[fierceawakening.livejournal.com]

Seriously. Can we stop with the diamonds?

And stop with the "if we call you out, it only causes a second of pain?" nonsense? I mean, I understand, and agree with, the idea that being confronted with your own prejudices and feeling weird is nothing next to being oppressed. But the idea that soul-searching isn't painful, or is only momentarily so, is bullshit.

Say what you mean, people. If you mean "I don't think, no matter how destabilizing this feels, it will ever feel as bad as not being represented well in media," say that. Not this fucking crazy diamond shit.

[(Anonymous)]

Thank you thank you for saying this.

[fierceawakening.livejournal.com]

You're so welcome. Thanks for your support.

I just... IDGI. Racism, sexism, ableism, etc. in fandom and in the material we're fans of are serious problems. But when people turn it into code words and rattle those off ("it's the tone argument," "I'm not here to educate you," "check your privilege") without any explanation at all... that ceases to be anything productive. It's simply snarky boilerplate and it's intended to do nothing more than piss people off.

How exactly does that make fandom a more welcoming place for POC. for people with disabilities, for trans folks, for... whatever have you?

[fierceawakening.livejournal.com]

And I say this as somebody who used to agree with all that, who could rattle off a "Check it!" with the best of them, and who finally realized she was just being an asshole and changed her mind about how to bring up these issues.

[unsquared.livejournal.com]

I like the way you think.

[fierceawakening.livejournal.com]

Thank you!

I mean, I do think there's something to "Gods, I'm too tired to teach you why I'm upset, esp. in the comments to a post that's lengthy already." But I think there are so many better ways to convey that than "I'm not here to educate you" or "*eyeroll* Privilege!"

[(Anonymous)]

anyone who gets upset about an internet argument with people they've never met doesn't deserve to be a real person

[fierceawakening.livejournal.com]

But the thing is, when people keep saying that your opinions stem from something that you yourself had no idea about, sometimes you do start to feel crazy. I think that's worth noting and respecting, even when (as it usually is) noting problematic things about a work or its fandom is worthwhile.

I think people write off how destabilizing challenges like this can be -- particularly when they then feel just fine about talking about them in very condescending ways. I'm not OK with that, as much as I want to have the conversations.