[ SECRET POST #1273 ]

[case]

⌈ Secret Post #1273 ⌋

Warning: Some secrets are NOT worksafe and may contain SPOILERS.

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Notes:

THIS ANON, I LIKE YOU.



Secrets Left to Post: 16 pages, 391 secrets from Secret Submission Post #182.
Secrets Not Posted: [ 0 - broken links ], [ 0 - not!secrets ], [ 0 - not!fandom ], [ 0 - too big ], [ 0 - repeat ].
Current Secret Submissions Post: here.
Suggestions, comments, and concerns should go here.

Comments

[timey-wimey-kid.livejournal.com]

IDK the whole thing sounded kinda like an excuse. As if liking Russia is a bad thing because OMG corruption. I like USA because it makes tons of awesome shows and movies and some of my world's favourite ppl were born there, not despite it had the dumbest president in the history of the universe for the past 8 years.

[ariante.livejournal.com]

Yeah, I can definitely see your point. I would like to think the OP didn't mean it like that, but I can definitely see how that is possible. :/

That said, as someone who truly loves Russian culture/language/music/etc, I will get people who attack me because of negative things about the country's past and present. So I end up having to clarify that the two ideas are separate and just because I love Russian culture does not mean I approve of everything that goes on. So that is one reason I think OP may have been just covering bases.

TL;DR I know. Sorry!

[timey-wimey-kid.livejournal.com]

I dunno, can any country in the world be approved for everything it does? And yet each one has something amazing about it. :)

[necro-staff.livejournal.com]

Aaawww, that sounded so sweet!

[timey-wimey-kid.livejournal.com]

I sure hope that wasn't sarcasm. xD

[necro-staff.livejournal.com]

Not at all, I thought thought what you said sounded nice. x3

[ariante.livejournal.com]

Yeah, that's kind of exactly what I tell people when they attack me for that kind of thing. Nothing is perfect. Just because you love something it doesn't mean you don't recognize its flaws, and just because you don't like something it doesn't mean you can't recognize its accomplishments. No country in the world has a "perfect record", though there are sadly people that delude themselves into thinking so. :/

[timey-wimey-kid.livejournal.com]

The problem is that the country is often confused for its people and the decisions their leaders made. The leaders make poor decisions and the whole country is to blame. In Russian we even have 2 different words for a country, "rodina" which means your home country, its people and all its cultural heritage regardless of the country's borders or name, be it Rus, RSFSR, USSR or Russian Federation; and "gosudarstvo" which is the state, its borders, laws and the oh-so-flawed government. Did we really ask for 70 years of communism? A bunch of loons took advantage of the chaos around their murder of the last Tsar family, claimed a leadership position, brainwashed the whole population with socialist ideals and made a bloodbath of those who disagreed. 70 years of bribery because a bribe was the only way in a closed economy to get you a nice warm jacket from Europe or a bottle of French wine instead of all that crap made in Russian factories that you were supposed to purchase or else you're not a patriot. And now we suddenly got a "democratic" system in place but it's like showing the fucking blinding sun to someone who's lived his whole life underground, people are scared of it and don't know what to do with it and prefer doing things "the old way". Are they to blame?

Wow, long and boring comment is long... and boring.

[hikari87.livejournal.com]

Having read this and thinking back on conversations I have had on forums with people from other European countries, you all are the ONLY ones not from the US who shares the same dual view of nation vs. government that we have, that I have encountered. By which I don't mean to say "it's good only because we do it too!" but I found it noteworthy because I had SUCH a time trying to explain this concept to some of the other Europeans I was talking to, because they apparently see no difference between their nation and its government and consequently we got in some needless arguments because of this difference in our viewpoints. They couldn't get why I was surprised and confused to hear them rip up their own countries (by name, not as in "I hate this political thing that's going on") and yet also express irritation about the fact that Americans can openly say "We love our country", because apparently somehow "I love my America" = "Your other country sucks." Actually, "America", to us, is PURELY "rodina", and "gosudarstvo" is quite separate, off to the side as it were. Government =/= nation. Beyond that, we like other peoples' patriotism---we expect that other people feel about their country just as we do about ours (It was quite a shock to me to hear such negativity towards their own countries) and don't know how to react to it. I love it that even with how crazy your country is you guys can still be all "We love Mother Russia!" Out of curiosity, do people ever try to make you feel ashamed of saying that, or of being patriotic at all? Because they definitely do that to us (whiny American is whiny, lol.) My thought on this is that those people want to say they love their own countries but feel ashamed to do so, so they bash other people for doing so because they're jealous they (think they) can't (even though NO ONE would judge them for doing it.) BTW your explanation of why your "gosudarstvo" is so messed up is very like something I said once on a forum, that the reason everything was all wrong over there is because you went straight from one dictatorship into another dictatorship and so didn't have any time in the middle where you could have learned how other forms of government work, so you literally are learning as you go with no frame of reference to work from. Glad to know my analysis wasn't terribly off.
...insanely long reply is insanely long o.o

[timey-wimey-kid.livejournal.com]

Well I don't know which Europeans exactly have you been talking to. I live in the UK and the Brits are the same, they don't identify with their government especially now that the Tories are in power and half the country didn't even ask for that. But yeh, the thing about the EU is that if you don't like living in one place, you can move to another. And people have been doing that freely, not really being attached to their home country.

I see your point. It's like when an american says he loves his country everybody just assumes he's been brainwashed by his government. Or that it automatically equals "I love hamburgers, Coca Cola and getting fat while sitting on the couch watching TV". The fuck. Hell, I love America and I haven't even been there. I love all its little pretty towns that I'd really wanna live in. I love old american cars, american humor, american scifi, american writers. The country's been built from scratch in a much shorter period than Europeans had (I'm not gonna discuss the methods used and the mass slaughter of local population, that's not the point), I can see why its people take immense pride in what they achieved.

LOL honestly, we say "I fuckin hate this country" as much as we declare our undying love for it. xDDDDDD But if anybody else says they hate Russia, they get kicked in the nuts. It's like you're the only one allowed to beat up your wife. LOL.

I don't know. I haven't met people who actually hate Russia. I mostly talk to Europeans, and to them Russia is just some strange and unexplored land lying behind the horizon, they've never been there and only heard rumors about it. So no, I never got any hate for loving it.

Yeh, your analysis was pretty much correct. We're trying to develop a democratic market system and it's not working well. I think at least one generation must change until, well, things actually change.

I like long conversations. :)

[hikari87.livejournal.com]

I have spoken (online) about this (and other things about us that aren't well known) to people from Germany, France, Spain, and Sweden. Granted that's not a lot of countries, but they all had the same way of thinking, so...The Germans sort of bypassed the whole separation of nation and government thing and went straight to "it's a little irritating that you are so patriotic", I tried to explain about the dichotomy and I don't know if they got it but they were nice about it. with the French girl, we started with the dichotomy and I don't think the patriotism came up much because we started talking about state government vs. federal government after that...the Swede was all "well, we're only patriotic one day a year over here" and sort of dropped out of the conversation...the Spanish girl, good heavens was she ever aggressive about both parts of the discussion lol. She said that she'd have no problem telling a strange foreigner all about the problems with her country and wouldn't say if there was anytihng good about it at all. I kept asking her if she meant her nation as a whole or the government, but she kept saying "country" even though I had told her about the dichotomy in my view. I don't think she really got what I was sating at all, though we had some very interesting discussions. I've seen other conversations/comments all over the internet on similar subjects enough to conclude that this is fairly common, unless most of the people online are just rude lol. The one exception I found, who was willing to admit they loved their country and be proud of it, was a Pole.
The thing about the America/American citizen bashers seems to be this. they THINK they know about us and understand our culture (probably because they watch our horrible "reality" TV shows.) So they feel free to act like jerks and tell us we suck because they only have a bad image and really don't know anything about us at all.These are often the same people who give us crap about supposedly not knowing anything about THEIR cultures (of course, not everyone is like that. Some of them are very nice, they're just not as loud as the rude ones.) But as far as I can tell, their entire "knowledge" of us is based on terrible fake tv shows and trashy pop stars.Well, if you only look at ANY country's terrible fake tv shows and trashy pop stars, you're not going to have a good image of them. But they won't look farther than that, and they decide that only we have the bad traits (that everyone has really) which they see there.
haha, we criticize ourselves a lot too.But like you said, anyone from the outside who tries that is going to get the crap kicked out of them. besides that, it's considered extremely bad form to complain about your own country to foreigners. We really take exception to our own citizens who do it, and if a foreigner bashes their own country to us we will lose a lot of respect for them (the person, not the country.)
I don't know of anyone in the US who dislikes Russia either. There are a lot of Russians here anyway, in certain areas. I used to live in Brooklyn when I was little and there are a ton of Russians there. You hear the language spoken all over the place and see signs written in Cyrillic letters. It's kind of thought of as this exotic and slightly dangerous winter land lol.