Case (![[personal profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/silk/identity/user.png)
case) wrote in ![[community profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/silk/identity/community.png)
fandomsecrets2010-07-15 04:34 pm
case) wrote in fandomsecrets2010-07-15 04:34 pm
[ SECRET POST #1290 ]
⌈ Secret Post #1290 ⌋
Warning: Some secrets are NOT worksafe and may contain SPOILERS.
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Notes:
Secrets Left to Post: 05 pages, 108 secrets from Secret Submission Post #184.
Secrets Not Posted: [ 0 - broken links ], [ 0 - not!secrets ], [ 1 2 3 4 5 - not!fandom ], [ 1 2 3 - too big ], [ 0 - repeat ].
Current Secret Submissions Post: here.
Suggestions, comments, and concerns should go here.
Re: Yes, this rant again. Sorry.
Suddenly it was like she was super Ginny: Capable of our pranking the twins! Braver than Ron and somewhat more clever as well! Able to out-hex Draco Malfoy! Almost (but not quite as) good at being a Seeker as Harry!
It was a bit much, especially since her personality did a one-eighty to go with it. Ginny came across very much as a Mary Sue to me, which was especially disappointing because I really did like her up through GoF.
The difference between Harry and Ginny is that while Harry has his own Gary Stu traits, he had vivid flaws to go with them. And those flaws were even often acknowledged! I thought the whole thing where girls were falling over themselves to catch his eye was somewhat overdone, but the text openly admitted that Harry could be spiteful, short sighted, and judgmental. While his flaws weren't fully explored or recognized, he was also the POV character, so of course he came across in an sympathetic manner.
Ginny wasn't the POV character at anytime, so it was easier to see her flaws and harder to see those flaws as sympathetic. Combine that with the text refusing to acknowledge those flaws to begin with, and you have a textbook example of a budding Mary Sue.
Re: Yes, this rant again. Sorry.
(Anonymous) 2010-07-15 10:46 pm (UTC)(link)In the beginning, Mary Sue or Gary Stu seemed like a pretty easy to recognize (and common) character type. They were always the author's idealized self written into a pre-existing universe, and they warped the universe around them.
I think that the problems with Ginny relate instead to her as the first type of cliche you mentioned, the Love Interest (tm). She (or he) isn't someone the author identifies with, or that the audience is supposed to identify with. They're just the Hot Dream Girl or Hot Dream Guy. The reason you don't see any of their flaws is because they're only important as a shallow love interest (or to be really cynical, attractive trophy) for the main character. So the author only bothers to show you the traits that make them lovable, usually how pretty and popular they are.
One reason it's not the same thing is that the story doesn't become all about them. Nobody cares much about Ginny; she's just Harry's Girlfriend.
I guess another reason why I'm resentful of the term is that, while I don't think Harry is Gary Stu either, I've seen plenty of people explain these kinds of legitimate defenses away to show how a (usually always female, and I didn't come into this with an agenda, it took years to notice this) different character is still a Mary Sue, after all. Arguments like: those aren't really "flaws," just things every teenage boy understandably has; the text forgives him those flaws too easily; it doesn't matter that he has flaws, what matters is everything's All About Him, and Deus Ex Machina things happen to make less work for him; etc. I don't buy it; I don't think he's a Stu. I do think Harry is a typical Wish Fulfillment character (for the audience and a little for the author), and that's fine.
But I do agree with your assessment with the problems with Ginny's character, 100%. I, also, really liked young Ginny at first, and really hated her once she became the stereotypical Fiesty Love Interest. I just don't like how thinly the term Mary Sue has been spread, it could now apply to any poorly developed character, no matter how minor, provided the author only bothers to show their good points.