fandomsecrets | [ SECRET POST #1293 ]

[ SECRET POST #1293 ]

⌈ Secret Post #1293 ⌋

Warning: Some secrets are NOT worksafe and may contain SPOILERS.

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Notes:

<-- breeding woopers!

Secrets Left to Post: 16 pages, 383 secrets from Secret Submission Post #185.
Secrets Not Posted: [ 0 - broken links ], [ 0 - not!secrets ], [ 0 - not!fandom ], [ 0 - too big ], [ 0 - repeat ], [ 1 - zombie poster ].
Current Secret Submissions Post: here.
Suggestions, comments, and concerns should go here.

Flat | Top-Level Comments Only

So... white people have to assume and fail even when they want to learn and avoid that. And you all still complain about all the fail. Wonderful!

Where did you get that from? The anon said that they would personally be willing to answer questions, but that a comm dedicated to that would be overrun with trolls. They don't specify, but I think that those trolls would come from both sides.

ayrt

Huh?

If this is about POC having to educate everyone else: look, when someone is hurt and upset because someone said something racist, it's unreasonable to expect them to calmly and politely sit down and explain what is and isn't appropriate behavior. I do my best to explain what I'm talking about and where I'm coming from as politely as possible, partially to avoid flamewars and partially becase I'm well aware that being told you did something racist tends to freak people out and put them on the defensive, and that's not ideal, IMO.

But sometimes some creep "complimented" my tits on the subway, and my relatives are fighting with each other, and the neighbors were having noisy sex and kept me up all night, and my cat puked in my shoes again, and my mental health issues are acting up, and I forgot to go to the store so there's nothing to eat, and someone posts some nasty racist bullshit on a comm I watch and that is just too goddamn much and it hits the INCANDESCENT RAGE! button in my brain and I stop giving a shit about whether or not I can teach the OP anything, I just want people to stop posting nasty racist bullshit.

And that's the crux of it for me. Even when I'm being nice, my end goal is to stop people from posting racist shit in my happy fandom space. I think it can be accomplished better by keeping my cool, but I'm just as human as you are, white people of the internet, and sometimes keeping my temper under control when I'm feeling hurt is just too much.

As for trolling, the anon above is right. I suspect that a racial-sensitivity-in-fandom-101 comm would go well for about three, four weeks while everyone tried really, really hard to understand each other. Then you'd get an influx of people asking clueless or troll-y questions and refusing to try and meet the answer-ers halfway, and people answering questions using the comm to show how much more enlightened they are. From there both sides would start desperately slugging it out for moral high ground while trolls boiled out of the woodwork, and that would be the end of that.

But sometimes some creep "complimented" my tits on the subway, and my relatives are fighting with each other, and the neighbors were having noisy sex and kept me up all night, and my cat puked in my shoes again, and my mental health issues are acting up, and I forgot to go to the store so there's nothing to eat, and someone posts some nasty racist bullshit on a comm I watch and that is just too goddamn much and it hits the INCANDESCENT RAGE! button in my brain and I stop giving a shit about whether or not I can teach the OP anything

Oh, poor you! So in other words, you feel entitled to disproportionately lash out at someone on the internet who made the mistake of crossing your path on the wrong day, because you didn't have the ovaries to vent your rage where it belonged and because your keyboard enables you to not have to bear the consequences of screeching incoherently in a stranger's face.

Hint: next time, take your rage out on the tit-staring moron on the subway, where it belongs. Don't troll fandom for a release valve, because it's always there, and some other people (other than YOU) deserve a Happy Space too.

Hey, you really want to avoid getting yelled at by the (oh noes!) big scary PC police?

heh, lol'd irl.

But yeah, this is what would happen in a "is my fic racist?" comm pretty much straight away -- deliberate misreadings and DRAMA WOO.

way to assume things about the above anon. real classy.

I do try bb <3

protip: if you want to offend a white person, don't use honky. it just sounds ridiculous. (though I am biased because I always think of this scene (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Npx_XiaOD0I at around 1:20) and giggle.)

however, fuck you. when I, a honky, encounter homophobic/anti-semitic/anti-atheist crap after a bad day, I don't take it out on ignorant people on the internet. because that's just stupid and rude. there are honestly a lot of well-meaning people who are just a bit ignorant because there are some things you can't know unless you're part of that group because it doesn't happen to other people and no one brings it up to the privileged. this does not make them a bad person and sometimes they don't have enough information to just google it. really, if you don't want to deal with being polite? don't fucking comment. you're just hurting your cause.

You're right. White people laugh when you say honky. Blame Richard Pryor. Ditto whitey. There really isn't an insult for white skin that white people will react to, because they don't equate any reference to their skin color, no matter how foul-intentioned, as an insult.

Although you have to give prejudice points to the "honky" poster above for trying her hand at racial slurs. Maybe she just needs more practice.

Considering I was deliberately looking for a silly-sounding slur for white folk, I think honky was a pretty good choice. I mean, cracker's pretty silly too, but honky always puts me in mind of twangy music (appropriate) and poking the noses of clowns (also appropriate, at least this time around :P).

If I accumulate enough ~prejudice points~, do I win my very own live-in whitesplainer/"real" ally?

eh, the only reason whitey, honky, or cracker are even mildly insulting is just because it's insulting that someone is trying to insult my skin color. but other than that I just think of delicious crackers, a honking goose, and some person attempting to insult someone by going "YEAH, YOU...WHITE-Y...PERSON...!!"

honestly if they didn't have such ridiculous words for it, white people would be much more insulted.

Hon, if you look at the comment I replied to, which deliberately misread what I posted in a poor attempt at trolling?

Also, you really and honestly think my response was 100% serious (honestly, a comment with the word honky in it and you didn't pick up on it? aiyah.) and not a deliberately silly response to trolling?

Then holy shit, girl, I am so embarrassed for you right now.

lol, like honky isn't actually used by people to be offensive (or at least try to be).

I was replying to your comment before that one (I just wanted to mention honky, I apologize for the layout of my reply being confusing) with my second paragraph, which was serious.

Eh, I figured starting out by saying I'd be willing to help people not accidentaly be racist fucks and the useof privilege checking where I'd implied that wasn't helpful would tip people off, but I have a problem where I forget the internet can't hear inflection in text very well.

And herpaderp my fault for misreading tone. I spent most of the evening wildly distracted and a little tipsy, I probably would have gone lolwat no matter how it was laid out. And now it is late enough to be early and this is getting pretty incoherent.

On a more serious note, it sounds uncomfortably like you're saying POC shouldn't react with anger or hurt to racism.

I'm hesitant to say this, but I think youj migtt not be getting why this is getting my hackles up because you're white. You can be the best, most involved ally in the world, but *isms will always be somewhat academic if you're not actively involved. You can get angry or sad or upset about yellowface, but I sincerely doubt it's the same hurt that comes with realizing Mickey Rooney in Breakfast at Tiffany's is supposed to be acting like you. For me, something like the Avatar casting is a direct and personal insult: people like me are not good enough, and I don't react well when I'm insulted.

I want racists to cut that shit out and stop hurting me first, because protecting myself is more important than scoring an ideological victory. Second, I want them to leave other people alone. Third, I want them to learn and become better human beings. Sometimes all three goals lign up and it is a magical experience where everyone learns something and we all go home happy. Other times the first goal overrides the others for one reason or another. And sometimes it is so painfully obvious that the third is never going to happen that it's not worth trying and venting my feelings in a massive internets slapfight will at least entertain me.

Now: really, if you don't want to deal with being polite? don't fucking comment. you're just hurting your cause.

"fuck you!.... always be polite"? I really hope you see the irony here.

Snark aside, I strongly resent the idea that being anything other than the good, polite, helpful POC who turns the other cheek and doesn't get scary and angry is more somehow more destructive than actual racism, and I strongly resent the idea that I must always be on my best behavior, even when I'm being inmsulted from here to the moon, or I'm going to, idk, validate stereotypes of ANGRY POC RAAAAR and turn people racist with my anger rays.

You can be the best, most involved ally in the world, but *isms will always be somewhat academic if you're not actively involved.

...did you miss the part where I mentioned I was a gay Jew-turned-atheist? why don't you check your privilege and realize that it's possible for a white person to be in a discriminated against minority group.

On a more serious note, it sounds uncomfortably like you're saying POC shouldn't react with anger or hurt to racism.

no, I'm not. I'm saying it's rude to lash out just because you've had a bad day. please go back and reread once you're coherent.

and your last paragraph is completely misinterpreting my comment based on what other people have said to you in these discussions before.

two parter because I forgot something.

this annoys me because I've seen it in every "!fail" discussion on LJ. someone says something ignorant, ten people jump on them, and when they want to understand what they did wrong, people twist their words and attack them instead of actually explaining what's wrong, so then that person thinks they're insane for being so offended over one thing they said and ultimately doesn't end up educating themselves. this particularly bothers me in discussions about homosexuality because it is not helping at all for some "activists" to get their panties in a twist over something that really isn't that offensive in the first place. my comment was not about how POC should ignore hateful things and cater to the whiteys at all.

So in other words, you feel entitled to disproportionately lash out at someone on the internet who made the mistake of crossing your path on the wrong day, because you didn't have the ovaries to vent your rage where it belonged and because your keyboard enables you to not have to bear the consequences of screeching incoherently in a stranger's face.

That's not what she said. She said that sometimes, after a hard day, she didn't feel like playing kindergarten teacher for a bunch of people who probably wouldn't understand what she said anyway. The fact that you immediately read that as attacks and insults says more about you than it does about her.

So in other words, you feel entitled to disproportionately lash out at someone on the internet

Disproportionately? So what, she deals with racism on a daily basis, but she's never to get worked up about it, lest she wound someone on the other end? If someone says some racist bullshit, she shouldn't get angry or hurt at the person who hurt her?

Oh. Okay.

And the next time some jerk at the train station punches me in the ribs and demands I give him my umbrella, I'll try to rein in my sense of entitlement and not get TOO upset at being attacked.

I'm well aware that being told you did something racist tends to freak people out and put them on the defensive

I sincerely apologize for my race for creating this impression over the years.

Rly. I mean, I make jokes and derail like crazy because that's just what I do when I'm nervous and admitting my mistakes. Not just race-related issues, just general anxiety-related.

But I am truly ashamed whenever I hear some clueless white person go on the defensive to attempt to "back up" their racist shit. And I totally understand why it's made POC unwilling to "educate people" about their priviledge--as someone who spends most of her time avoiding conflict.

Course I know senseless sparkletext and Capslock is probably annoying, but if that's the worst thing you can say about me, I'm okay. I really have nothing against this sort of wank. Why? Because it's non-threatening. and racefail discussions involving white people are wanky anyway, so let's at least be civil.

HI I'M WHITE AND IT'S ALL ABOUT MEEEEEEEE

HEY BOY, I DEMAND YOU EXPLAIN TO ME EXACTLY WHAT RACISM IS

MY COMFORT IS VERY IMPORTANT

racism = a dirty word that only evil black people use

internets, being white in the usa is hard :(

Wow, reading all these post on F!S about racefail, racism and privilege I think being human (of any color) in the USA is hard. Fandom=/=real life, but apparently it is in the US.
People seem to be walking on eggshells around each other and attacking when someone accidentally slips.

This is the image I get when I think about living in America. I'm glad I'm European.

Oh don't worry, irl racism isn't even discussed at all. Unless it's just a lot of offensive white-trash sort of humor that everyone can laugh along with, gaze at the door and silently pray no poc was offended.

Of course every once and awhile an uppity POC forgets their place and rails a fuss about unfair wages or employment policies, but these are generally handled peacefully in court, with a big settlement and a lot of seminars on being "Politically Correct in the Workplace."

Considering we used to just hang, shoot or jail people for voicing a dissenting opinion, I'd say we've come a long way.

Race issues in the U.S. differ widely from region to region. Just like a whole lot of other things. It's nearly impossible to get an accurate impression of 'the U.S.' or 'Americans' that can apply to everybody. :/ The same's true of Europe, I expect.

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[ SECRET POST #1293 ]

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