fandomsecrets | [ SECRET POST #1374 ]

⌈ Secret Post #1374 ⌋

Warning: Some secrets are NOT worksafe and may contain SPOILERS.

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148. [SPOILERS for Persona 4]

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149. [SPOILERS for Psych]

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150. [TRIGGER WARNING for non-con/incest]

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151. [TRIGGER WARNING for non-con/dub-con]

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152. [TRIGGER WARNING for lolicon]

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153. [TRIGGER WARNING for self-harm]

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Notes:

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Current Secret Submissions Post: here.
Suggestions, comments, and concerns should go here.

Flat | Top-Level Comments Only

I mean, I understand where you're coming from, but the things that she puts him through are pretty much: wearing make-up. Having friends. Wanting to be in a play. Having taste in music that he abhors. And on one occasion, calling him out on rape. Admittedly, he has no perspective, but, I mean. I find it hard to believe that you would stop raping someone because of these things, you know.

Nabokov is a genius because everything is so incredibly ambiguous. I first read the book in my early teens and only sympathized with Humbert to the extent that I thought Dolores was an absolute bitch. I remember desperately wanting someone to love me as much as HH loved Dolores. Whether that's an appropriate reaction or not, I think there's at least enough in the book to suggest that HH is not pure evil and Dolores is not merely an innocent victim. (She may be a victim, but there's certainly more to her than that.)

For the book to make any sense at all, there has to be enough to get Humbert hooked, and that comes from the two scenes I mentioned. I can't speak to why the Lolicon fan didn't get that out of them or precisely what they were looking for, but the feeling of need, want, long, passion and release (immediately leading to more wanting)is certainly there.

Again, I see what you're saying, but I respectfully disagree. I read Lolita for the first time when I was like twelve, and I thought pretty much the same way you did because I was twelve. I wasn't stupid but I didn't have the same critical thinking skills that I had even three years later. When I reread it in high school (it's one of my favorite books also) I was horrified because I felt like I was reading a completely different book. I never felt that there was anything really there for Humbert because I never got the impression that he considers Lolita a person. He hates everything that he actually knows about Lolita, the person; he wants her to be young but hates when she behaves like a young person; he hates her intelligence because she uses it against him; he hates when she's kind because she's not kind to him. He claims that he loves Lolita but it's always turned inwards; even his (needlessly melodramatic) apology at the end is all about him and his need to have the last word; to the best of his knowledge, she's created a life where she has little use for him (almost no use for him, since the money he gives her is actually her mothers) and he can't bear it that she's not wallowing in misery the way that he is. I mean, personally I didn't find those scenes erotic because I don't believe anything about him, but I also think that Lolita is only nominally a victim; she's certainly the victim of rape, but she's largely her own agent, and if she isn't particularly likable it's partially because we're deep in his head and mostly because teenagers aren't very likable. At no point do I find him more sympathetic than her, although I'm aware that a lot of people feel differently. I'm not trying to change your mind! I just have a lot of feelings about Lolita.

And that's why Nabokov is a genius, and why it's still my favorite book. There'll always be something new to find and think (and argue) about.

I have a lot of feelings too. I don't think Humbert's solipsism negates the eroticism of what's happening from his perspective. I've been rereading this book for 30 years and I've never not sympathized with him. The only thing that chances is the degree to which I do or don't hate Dolores. (I always hate Quilty.)

I freely admit a lot of this has to do with the fact that James Mason will always be my Humbert and I have a fierce posthumous crush on Mr. Mason.

Er, when I say largely her own agent, I mean - not that she's her own agent in the rape, but she manages to be largely her own agent despite it. I'm not sure if that's clear.

She certainly manages to inflict pain and manipulate people around her, even apparently Quilty, which is saying something.

Yes, she's a victim of rape, but (again, the genius of the writer) she is a fully formed character who is very much imperfect and genuinely unlikeable, even when described by the character who is passionately in love with her.

[ SECRET POST #1374 ]

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