[ SECRET POST #1387 ]

[case]

⌈ Secret Post #1387 ⌋

Warning: Some secrets are NOT worksafe and may contain SPOILERS.

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Notes:

Secrets Left to Post: 03 pages, 051 secrets from Secret Submission Post #198.
Secrets Not Posted: [ 0 - broken links ], [ 1 - not!secrets ], [ 1 - not!fandom ], [ 0 - too big ], [ 0 - repeat ].
Current Secret Submissions Post: here.
Suggestions, comments, and concerns should go here.

Comments

[(Anonymous)]

I'm not going to touch anything about 'retardation', but I am kind of curious about 'lame', because...speaking linguistically, it's a word that I literally have never seen applied in its dictionary sense, as in 'unable to walk', except to describe horses or other such animals or in period pieces from further back in history, which use a lot of dated language. Nobody—nobody who's not a stupid asshole who thinks they're being clever, anyway—thinks to refer to those with walking disabilities as 'lamed', anymore, in my experience?

So, etymologically it comes from a bad place, but it doesn't really seem associated with its source anymore? Like, for example, the word 'sinister' originally comes from 'left-handed', but nobody seriously gets in a fuss over that. :|a IDK, maybe I'm wrong.

[favabean05.livejournal.com]

Like, for example, the word 'sinister' originally comes from 'left-handed'

I did not know that. That's interesting. :)

[(Anonymous)]

Yep! |D Because in the olden days being a lefty was soooo evil and suspicious, LOL. One gets that pattern in the history of many languages, actually, with 'left-handed' being the base of one or the other ill-fortuned word. :)a

[leafing.livejournal.com]

Your mileage may vary, but I've heard "lame" used in its dictionary sense a lot in religious contexts. I've also heard regular usage in terms like "a lame leg."

[(Anonymous)]

Huh. :|a Yeah, I don't have a lot of experience with the religious context, but that makes sense, considering that religious texts are obviously chock full of old language, etc.

And oh, 'a lame leg', that's interesting, I don't hear that, either. The equivalent phrases I always hear are 'a gimp leg' or 'a bum leg'!

But yeah, I guess that meaning is still around. :|a

[(Anonymous)]

Yeah "lame" has such a strong meaning of "bad/pathetic" etc now that it would sound old-fashioned or rude to call a limping person "lame". Personally I would definitely still call an animal like a horse lame, since you don't go around generally insulting animals using "lame", and nobody's going to confuse those two meanings with animals. With people the meaning would be much more unclear.

[(Anonymous)]

Exactly! If anyone actually went around referring to someone's walking disability as them being 'lame', nobody would find that acceptable! D: Because it's not, the primary usage of the word is, as you said, 'bad/pathetic', and people know it would come across as frikkin' rude to use it that way.

[(Anonymous)]

I still hear older people refer to a limp as "lame." My grandparents refer to mine that way. Younger people, not so much.

[(Anonymous)]

Yeah, it's definitely tied to generational shifts in language, though that's normal. Your grandparents (and mine, come to think of it; I can totally picture them using it that way) and their age-group would prooobably never think to use what younger folks consider the common meaning, either, amirite? And the younger folks would never use the older meaning...etc etc.

...Hmm. As someone with relevant exposure to both usages, do you find the word offensive? :0a Sorry if this is a completely tactless question!!

[(Anonymous)]

I have no problem answering that question. I'm not offended by the current usage of the word. While I'm aware of the word's origins, I don't feel that current usage applies to me or my leg. When my grandparents use it to refer to my leg, I'm not offended by that either. It was the acceptable term for my condition in their day. They are not aware of current usage and use "lame" only as the descriptive term they know it to be.

[(Anonymous)]

Ahh, thanks for answering. :)a Cool, that seems like a most level-headed and reasonable response! I mean, obviously people's experiences differ and and if someone had been burned by the word used as a purposeful insult I'd understand being offended by it, but in general use it doesn't seem to get much mileage that way...

And taking into consideration social norms for various generations and groups is just an all-around useful way to filter things, I find.

[imouto.livejournal.com]

I still use the word lame in both contexts. Maybe it's a regional thing? I broke my ankle when I was a kid and the word lame was tossed around constantly. I never really took offense to it, since I figured it was just one of those words that meant different things in different contexts. I mean, I knew when a teacher would say to a kid "Hey Joe, help Shelley up the stairs to the gym, she's still lame" the teacher wasn't implying I was a loser, she just meant I had a hard time getting up stairs in my cast and crutches.

[(Anonymous)]

Not OP, but I think that's the point here. Just like we don't use "lame" in its etymological sense anymore, most people don't use "retarded" in that sense either. And just like nobody gets angry about the use of "lame" anymore, people should maybe accept that the meaning of "retarded" is also changing instead of feeling offended when they have no reason to.

[(Anonymous)]

Mrrr, I don't think I agree with that. :|a Unlike with 'lame', which a lot of people don't even know the other meaning of and never think of it when using it, in all of my experience the use of 'retarded' has been inextricably bound with being derogatory toward those with mental disabilities. For some people, past a certain point, not on purpose, but it's there and we all know about it.

It maybe starts in elementary or middle school, when there's that class of kids that everyone knows is different, and then the others kids cop to the word retarded and start slinging it at each other in horrified delight, 'you don't want to be associated with them, do you?? ' Etc etc, I just—it's waaaaay more closely tied to direct insults to the disabled, not to mention that it is used all the time to insult the disabled directly, not just people using the word to describe other things. :(a

[(Anonymous)]

I highly doubt it will change soon, but it will change, eventually. I don't use it anymore (in english- no one's ever made a fuse about it in my mother language) but I also don't see it as a reason to rip someone's throat if they use it unthinkingly and not referring to disabled people.

I think that's the problem- some are too trigger happy to sling accusations.

[blackjackrocket.livejournal.com]

There was a conversation about just that issue on the site where I work (although it was specifically if "jap" can be considered offensive any more when people on the site were exclusivly using it as a short form of "Japanese" and seemed to have no concept that it was *ever* a derogitory term). It's an interesting thing to consider, how words change over time and yet it seems people are trying to maintain offensive terms as offensive even though, historically, words change meaning all the time.

[veronica-rich.livejournal.com]

You mean like how "hysterical" comes from the uterus and originally applied to "irrational" behavior of women, but is now usually used to mean anyone who is overly upset, or something tremendously funny? I'm a woman and it doesn't offend me. Language changes. "Hussy" used to be a respectable term for a woman.

Also, the only time I see "lame" refer to disability anymore is on animals with problems walking, not humans. Maybe that's just because I deal a lot in livestock, though.