[ SECRET POST #1464 ]

[case]

⌈ Secret Post #1464 ⌋

Warning: Some secrets are NOT worksafe and may contain SPOILERS.

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Notes:

Secrets Left to Post: 05 pages, 108 secrets from Secret Submission Post #209.
Secrets Not Posted: [ 0 - broken links ], [ 1 - not!secrets ], [ 1 - not!fandom ], [ 0 - too big ], [ 0 - repeat ].
Current Secret Submissions Post: here.
Suggestions, comments, and concerns should go here.

Comments

[(Anonymous)]

She's the recent MS development - a classic MS is gorgeous, brilliant, etc, and everyone is interested in her. Haruhi is basically an ordinary girl, albeit a rather cute and smart one - and everyone is _still_ interested in her.

[vivi314.livejournal.com]

well

it's kind of the point of harem anime anyway? and a mary-sue is generally a badly developed character whereas i found her well-executed enough...THEN AGAIN it's a matter of YMMV so yeah..

[(Anonymous)]

Different anon. Yes, which is why I find all harem main characters suspicious whether they're male or female. Someone who writes about this one person getting so much romantic attention from the opposite sex (Haruhi, Miaka, Keitaro, Tenchi) must have weird issues about the opposite sex. They're not Sues or Stus in the classic sense (not impossibly perfect, for a start), but that may only mean their writers are smart enough not to fall into the trap.

Anyway, with the stigma now attached to Sues and Stus, many writers have become subtle so they'll pass under the radar. It's a matter of taste, but to me one of the things that sets off my Sue/Stu alarm going is the premise of the harem: a single character receiving too much romantic attention. That smacks of frustrated teenager "I WANT BOYS/GIRLS TO PAY ATTENTION TO MEEEEEEEE" mind-set. Particularly for the male harem leads, you'd understand if they were the kind of guys who'd be heartthrobs - but no, you've got Keitaro from Love Hina as the poster boy/archetype. Haruhi's indifference towards gender I see as something the writer tossed in to make her look "cool" - "yeah, I'm getting so much attention from the guys but I don't particularly care, really, and I don't even bother to doll myself up even though I'd be one hell of a looker if I cared to, which makes me so cool". Taken separately, that not-dolling-myself-up and that indifference to the opposite sex and romance in general is fine. But if that's under a harem series, which such a premise behind it, that makes it suspicious for me.

[seiberwing.livejournal.com]

...what makes you think Haruhi's not worthy of interest? If she were real I'd want to be her best friend forever and buy her sushi.

[vivalana.livejournal.com]

Oh goody.

I'm glad the "Mary Sue" term has evolved to the point where we can stigmatize the more complex female characters as well.

[stunt-muppet.livejournal.com]

Haven't you heard? If you're female and anything good happens to you, or you ever get anything you want, ever, you're a Mary Sue. There was a memo and everything.

[judo-creature.livejournal.com]

If you are amazing and people like you, you are a Mary Sue. If you are ordinary and people like you, you are a Mary Sue. If you are straight-up boring and people like you, you are a Mary Sue. 8|

[p-drunkwriting.livejournal.com]

This. Also, I've noticed that the "nice" characters always get blamed of being Mary Sues. Only the hbic and bratty spoiled characters get the free pass for being ~oh-so-complex and troubled. God forbid anyone be kind and down-to-earth.

[(Anonymous)]

And heaven forbid anyone is ever interested in a female character! Thank god you're here to tell us to stop paying attention to girls, and to stop reading or writing female characters as if there's anything interesting about them.

I mean really, you're making it very plain that the "Mary Sue" ness of a character, to you, is based not on anything about them or their personal qualities, but on them getting value and attention. A female character who is valued in canon? Sue sue sue. How dare anyone value a woman; only men are worth anything.

That's some vile misogyny you've got going there. :/

[(Anonymous)]

That's not what I meant.
If you have a beautiful, smart, funny girl who is the center of everyone's attention, that attention is reasonable.
But when you have an ordinary girl who is the center of everyone's attention, it's about as believable as Tamaki being what he was in canon while also being a fat pimply guy.

[(Anonymous)]

But that doesn't wash with what you were saying before. So possibly you didn't say what you meant then? Because you were saying that beautiful/smart/whatever girls who are the centre of attention and ordinary girls who are the centre of attention are Mary Sues. The key point there being the attention and not the qualities of the character.

...Not that this is quite relevant to Haruhi, since she did have qualities which made the focus on her reasonable in the context of Ouran.

[(Anonymous)]

No. That doesn't wash what I said before. You see, one Mary Sue trait it to be loved by everybody else in the series. And Haruhi isn't love by every host.
I just explained why I don't think Haruhi is a Mary Sue.

[(Anonymous)]

Sorry, you've lost me, since what you're saying doesn't seem to have any real connection to your previous comments or to mine.

But if you don't think Haruhi's a Sue, great.

[(Anonymous)]

Lol I think I replied in the wrong thread.
Anyway she's getting way more attention than she could realistically get in such a situation. That's my point. It's an Everywoman type of MS, and yes the male heroes of harem anime are totally the same way. It's meant to make the audience be able to easily relate yet feel good about themselves.

[(Anonymous)]

XD Good to know! I had thought of saying "Are you sure you replied to the right thread?" but since I thought you might still have been the person I was talking to, that seemed too rude...

[seiberwing.livejournal.com]

I find it amusing that someone else downthread said that most women would find it hard to relate to a crossdresser...

[(Anonymous)]

Except she's not an ordinary girl. Maybe she's not drop dead gorgeous but she has a great and funny personality.

But let's just focus on her looks, after all there's nothing more to female characters.

[(Anonymous)]

Different anon. I think all harem main characters, male OR female, are suspicious. When a writer devotes time on something about someone being a magnet for the opposite sex...gee, I wonder what issues about attention from the opposite sex they have. But I won't call them (Haruhi, Keitaro from Love Hina, Tenchi, Miaka) Sues and Stus per se, at least in the classic sense - classic Sues and Stus are impossibly perfect characters the universe (i.e., romantic attention from the opposite sex) revolves around on. Harem main characters? Just characters. Who the universe revolves around on.

Also, with the whole stigma attached to Mary Sues, the writers have gone subtle. Trim down the impossible perfectness to the "basics" - in a harem, the most important thing about the main character is that s/he is surrounded by members of the opposite sex who are mostly attracted to her/him.

[euphonious-glow.livejournal.com]

I did like that, in the end, Tamaki fell for her because of her personality. Isn't that a good thing?

I see what you're saying, but I thought the point was that Haruhi was a very caring and considerate person. And the boys' interest makes sense, because she's a commoner and they're curious about her life. And she comes through for them as a great friend.