fandomsecrets | [ SECRET POST #1464 ]

⌈ Secret Post #1464 ⌋

Warning: Some secrets are NOT worksafe and may contain SPOILERS.

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Notes:

Secrets Left to Post: 05 pages, 108 secrets from Secret Submission Post #209.
Secrets Not Posted: [ 0 - broken links ], [ 1 - not!secrets ], [ 1 - not!fandom ], [ 0 - too big ], [ 0 - repeat ].
Current Secret Submissions Post: here.
Suggestions, comments, and concerns should go here.

Flat | Top-Level Comments Only

He's innocent until proven guilty.

As are the women who accuse him.

Really, people.

According to some in this thread, saying that Assange is innocent until proven guilty is the exact same thing as saying that the women are guilty of lying. What do you make of that?

In a court of law in America.

That has shit-all to do with the court of public opinion.

"Most rape accusations are true. A small fraction of rape accusations are not true."

I think everybody can agree this is true?

Some people are saying that saying this is misogynist. How would you express the idea, then, without invalidating the innocent people that do exist?

Sorry, I'm a little confused here and honestly trying to fix what I'm doing or saying wrong.

Don't?

Why do you feel such a driving need to assert to the world what liars women are?

It's not a driving need to assert to the world that women are liars and more a driving need to assert to people who say that every rape accusation should be believed, that sometimes they shouldn't be... 0.001% of the time or something. Fairness is fairness?

Yeah, I guess shitting on a woman's bodily autonomy is fair. That's the way it's been for millennia, hasn't it?

The big problem here seems to be that in some justice systems (such as the U.S.), the accuser in a crime is legally required to prove that the crime was committed - it's not a case of the accused having to prove their way out of the accusations. In many crimes, you can do things to prove a crime was clearly committed - fingerprints that aren't the owner's at a theft or burglary scene, alibis to prove it wasn't them who broke in, blood and bodies at a murder scene ... you get the idea.

But a rape is something that happens overlapping an action the victim might willingly physically participate in anyway. Almost nobody wants to be robbed or have their home or car invaded, or be killed, but many people willingly have sex or like to be touched intimately. Of course, when this is done by force, it's rape - but not all rape comes with bruises and fingerprints on skin and blood and easily discernible outward signs of force. (In the converse, some people enjoy and deliberately agree to consensual rough sex that leaves marks.) This makes rape harder to prove than many other violent crimes. Then, you throw in the longtime oppression of women and the inherent unfairness of the patriarchal system that's still pretty much in full force in a lot of cultures (again, I go to the U.S.), and I can see where some people are getting offended that a woman claiming rape might not be believed. AGAIN - it really isn't like any other violent crime, for the reasons I gave, IMO - and in public opinion, the normal "innocent until proven guilty" doesn't always work in practicality.

Human beings aren't perfect. Some lie, on both sides. In a perfect justice system, there would be foolproof tests to determine if it's the accused or accuser doing the lying (if there's no admission of guilt) in each and every case. But there's not. We can't read minds yet. There are some trolls in this thread, but I see a lot of other commenters who just aren't expressing or grasping this notion very well. But that's me; YMMV.

However, from a personal standpoint in being a woman and knowing a lot of women, I have to say that going to the trouble of publicly accusing a man of rape is quite a traumatic experience, and you'd really have to have it in for him (and not mind being dragged through the mud yourself) to do it if it's not true. I can only imagine one kind of circumstance where a woman would even think to do such a thing falsely, and that's if she's caught having sex or pregnant or with a disease, and social pressures are so very great and public on her for having done it willingly that she feels it's her only way out. But still! False accusations for something like this would be horribly taxing, so I don't think they happen much at all.

Thank you for giving a calm explanation of this! It's a pity meran_flash can't bring herself to communicate on this level or I could have saved half an hour's reading. I kinda still hope he turns out to be innocent, but I fully acknowledge that's only a reaction to meran_flash's vitriol (before I came across this, uh, discussion, I had intended to just wait for the judicial verdict).

You are good at explaining though, thank you!

Thanks. I think meran_flash means well. I wouldn't take her approach, but that's me. /shrug

[ SECRET POST #1464 ]

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