[ SECRET POST #1481 ]

[case]

⌈ Secret Post #1481 ⌋

Warning: Some secrets are NOT worksafe and may contain SPOILERS.

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Notes:

Secrets are posted the week after they're submitted.

Secrets Left to Post: 17 pages, 403 secrets from Secret Submission Post #212.
Secrets Not Posted: [ 0 - broken links ], [ 1 2 3 - not!secrets ], [ 0 - not!fandom ], [ 1 2 3 4 - too big ], [ 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 - repeat ], [ 1 - death threat ].
Current Secret Submissions Post: here.
Suggestions, comments, and concerns should go here.

Comments

[cherrycoloured.livejournal.com]

I don't think putting more work into a character can make them Mary Sue. In fact, I think quite an opposite. The more you work on a character, the more their flaws and very human characteristics can come through.

Also, I don't see the difference between working on a character you idenitify with of your gender and one not of your gender.

Also , as an anon said before, you are limited by a original character's personality unless you wish to write occ...

True, but most female characters aren't Mary Sues. Not to mention you can write a canonically male character as if they were born belonging to the other gender and/or sex.

[kallanda-lee.livejournal.com]

I keep wording it wrongly , it seems....

Putting significantly more work into one (female) character compared to the other characters, to me, can lead to Mary Sues.

Of course, putting a lot of work in ALL characters is preferable.

Of course you could write a male Mary Sue, or Marty Stu, or whatever, but then you're basically still doing the same thing, and the gender becomes interchangeable somewhat.

The difference to me would be between writing a character that actually has qualities you identify with, or projecting those qualities on a character does not have them.

And no, last comment was unrelated to Mary Sue-ism, just on the being limited by some characters. And yes you can write a male character as if they were female, but I really prefer not doing that, because to me that would be highly occ, unless said male is actually effeminate to begin with.

[kallanda-lee.livejournal.com]

Unrelated, I like your icon :)

[(Anonymous)]

Why are you trying to reason with this idiot? She's a rape apologist.

[(Anonymous)]

Why do you say that?

[judo-creature.livejournal.com]

kallandra_lee has some interesting views on rape, I would agree. I have the thread bookmarked, if you'd like to see. It's a real mess, though, just to warn.

[dorknessrising.livejournal.com]

Having just looked at the thread? Interesting does not even begin to describe it.

And yeah, I think people like her are who this secret is aimed at. I hate to agree with an "I Judge You" secret, but she's kinda proving the OP's point in those threads.

[judo-creature.livejournal.com]

Yeaaaah... I had to drop a thread because she basically said that she didn't consider what my pedophilic serial assailant of an ex-boyfriend did to be rape, which... buh. I wasn't aware that targeting the emotions of young girls to specifically manipulate them into saying yes [or simply not saying no] despite knowing that they don't actually want to have sex with you wasn't rape/assault, but I guess you learn something new every day.

I kind of agree with you. I like many of her comments, so I want to give her the benefit of the doubt, but I'm really uncomfortable with almost every single reason she listed up there, though I don't know if I'm quite coherent enough to put up a good argument.

[dorknessrising.livejournal.com]

Yeah. That, and I've heard the "I won't write anything but slash because female characters are weak and useless" argument way too many times (which is who I really think the secret was intended for). So as much as I hate to say it, I'm automatically wary of (cis)women who write slash exclusively. The pattern is definitely there, and people like kallanda_lee seem perfectly fine with continuing it.

[judo-creature.livejournal.com]

I'm definitely with you on the "automatically wary" part. I don't think it's to the level of the secret maker, that I doubt their feminist value forever, but until I get to know a person, if they exclusively write male characters in male romances and find the appeal of slash that there are ~no women... well, until I actually see for myself through getting to know them that they don't have some internalized misogyny, I'm wary. I do seem to notice this almost exclusively from straight ciswomen.

And, man, I always thought that the appeal of gay pairings was that it was two men or two women, not the fact that they were lacking a woman or lacking a man. :\ I guess I've been doing it wrong.

[dorknessrising.livejournal.com]

Yeah, same here. I don't automatically write them off, but until I know them better, I'm wary.

But then, I also tend to not even ship along gender lines anyway. If I ship two characters, it's because I see the appeal of those two personalities interacting romantically. Their genitals are the last thing on my mind.

[judo-creature.livejournal.com]

Pretty much the same here. I think the only time I ship people together based on sex is with f/f every once in a quiet while, because... well, because I am gay, and like straight women sometimes just wants to watch two dudes get it on, sometimes I really just want to read about hot chicks. Unfortunately femmeslash is hideously underrated. /cries about it, etc

[dorknessrising.livejournal.com]

I don't think I've really ever shipped characters based on sex appeal, but that's largely because I'm asexual myself and therefore don't really understand sexual attraction anyway (as in I've never experienced the desire to have sex with someone of any gender, ever).

When I'm writing attraction, I'm writing it from a cerebral standpoint of "A likes B because s/he likes XYZ aspects of B's persona." Because that's...more or less how I become attracted to people in real life. Sex never even crosses my mind. Even if I watch/read porn, it's more like scratching an itch -- as in, relieving a very annoying/irritating sensation by doing something instinctual -- than because I actually want to have sex with someone. So a lot of the time I feel generally alienated by the shipping community at large.

[judo-creature.livejournal.com]

Oh, I completely understand. Another asexual in the house~ Except I am a grey-area asexual, and I use a lot of sexual lingo, which tends to confuse people sometimes, sorry. xD

I probably should have specified: I didn't mean sex as in having sex, I just meant physical sex. As in, the only time I pick pairings according to the physical sex of those involved is when I am hankering for some girl on girl, and even then it's usually fluff, since I have a hairtrigger gag reflex when it comes to porn.

For some reason, most of my main characters are pretty sexual, but I totally get what you mean, as I have quite a few aces and demisexuals in my closet, as well. One of my favourite lines to write are a/demi characters in their first romantic relationships and trying to figure out how to balance romance in regards to companionship and sexuality.

Beyond that, I creeped a little on your profile to see if we had any common interests, and I wonder if you'd mind me friending you?

[dorknessrising.livejournal.com]

Friend away! I've gotten a lot more sporadic about updating because my work schedule is nuts during the week (lol, tech support), but I will occasionally post something very dorky about one of my (often long-dead) fandoms. Yeah, icon is a clue.

[(Anonymous)]

I read the thread linked above and... wow. I really want her to be a troll, because the thought of someone genuinely holding those opinions about sexism and rape makes me depressed as hell.

[dorknessrising.livejournal.com]

As much as it pains me to say it, I think this one's real.

[judo-creature.livejournal.com]

Unfortunately, she's far too consistent to be a troll. I didn't want to judge her by her responses in the Julian Assange thread, but reading her discussions about male vs. female parenthood...? Hoo, boy.