fandomsecrets | (no subject)

Since there's been some debate about which secrets get linked and which don't, I'd like your input!

Unfortunately, I can't link everything that's NSFW because what's NSFW varies. In some cases, things as commonly found in secrets as profanity in large text would be considered NSFW.

Things currently on the "link" list:
- explicit guro
- explicit nudity (of the pornographic type; art is fine)
- anything containing outright porn
- images that contain common triggers in visual (that is, not text) form (e.g. signs of self-injury, images of dub/non-con between characters, pictures of emaciated human beings. Things like images of real murders and genocide victims have also been used before)
- flashy "seizure" gifs
- anything in which children are sexualized (yes I did go back and link the Boku no Pico one, I'm sorry about that)

None of those things above are up for debate.

But there are times when it's not so clear cut. Like something that is censored but barely, or something that is definitely sexual but isn't explicitly showing any body parts. For example, there's a secret in this week's batch of two half-clothed people, and one is about to reach (consensually) into the other one's pants and is halfway there but hasn't quite made it yet, and there's kissing and touching that makes it obvious where it's heading. There's another secret of a character in a dress pulling the skirt part up, with a small censor over the genitalia but otherwise overtly sexualized.

What about things like that?

[Poll #1673008]

Remember, nothing is going to be censored - the secret will be posted like any other, in the body of the post, not in the bar at the bottom - just linked instead of embedded. And some people are more likely to pay attention to secrets linked for being porny anyway, so there's that!

Flat | Top-Level Comments Only

Fandom secrets has always been "NSFW" to me - you guys have no control over what secrets are submitted, so it should not be your burden to filter what may or may not be acceptable for someone's school/work. That's above and beyond the call of duty, and arguably not even possible. (Half the secrets that just mention homosexuality would get someone in hot water in certain conservative cultures, for example.)

In addition, I do feel linking is a form of censorship. If the image isn't illegal in the country where the person posting it is (actual photos of child porn, for example), I don't see why mods should be forced to make the decision to screen. The point of this community is for fans to be able to "say anything" -- people who choose to read it should understand that this may mean they will be exposed to secrets or ideas that make them profoundly uncomfortable. It would be different if this community were a mandatory part of the LJ experience, but since it is strictly opt-in, I am very uncomfortable with the increasing number of people who call for it to involve links/trigger warnings/censorship tactics. Nothing would make me feel more like a freak then discovering that my secret is too "extreme" even for an anonymous air-your-thoughts comm. Just saying.

Edited 2011-01-27 21:29 (UTC)

The thing with porn, though it's legal, is that it's only legal for those 18 and up. To allow explicit images like that to be posted would mean I would have to stick an 18+ only label on this community, meaning that those under 18 wouldn't get to participate (at least logged-in, I don't know how it works for anon).

Fair enough. (I'm always logged in, so I wasn't aware this comm wasn't already designated 18+ ;) It would make sense then to stay compliant with LJ's rules -- ex, "pictures with clothes off are going behind a link".

What's bugging me more is the "trigger warnings" bit -- "triggers" are subject to the whims of a given community, and are often even harder to define than pornography. I don't mind the opt-in system that exists currently, but unless there is a LOT of transparency involved, filtering the rest of the secrets starts to feel an awful lot like "YOUR KINK IS NOT OKAY". It is also a huge burden to ask mods to filter the rest of the secrets, and you guys are a billion kinds of awesome to keep this comm going to begin with.

(And before anyone starts to accuse me of being a heartless bastard, I do actually have a "trigger" that has been set off by fiction before -- but you know, excluding fans from a space that is supposedly for everyone upsets me more than the transitory, if extremely unpleasant, experience of a panic attack. My damage is my damage, and for all I know, a person posting a "triggery" secret has damage too. Perhaps that fan who posts a secret about rapefic or cutting might be trying to get catharsis through a dark confession -- excluding them would make them feel even more like a freak.)

Edited 2011-01-27 21:55 (UTC)

Most secrets about rape fic and cutting and other common triggers don't feature explicit images of those topics, though. And very few people have chosen images like that for the secrets to begin with, so I don't think it's something that needs worry about yet, haha. Text will always be fine!

Okay, that makes me feel much better. I would still like to suggest that the community guidelines include an explicit rundown of what types of images are not okay then - rather than stating that "triggery images will be linked", perhaps the wording could be more precise. IE: images depicting full nudity or blatant sexual activity will be linked, as will images showing blood/gore/knives scoring flesh. A metric that offers more detail without a value judgment would be greatly appreciated.

"- images that contain common triggers in visual (that is, not text) form (e.g. signs of self-injury, images of dub/non-con between characters, pictures of emaciated human beings. Things like images of real murders and genocide victims have also been used before)"?

e.g. signs of self-injury, images of dub/non-con between characters, pictures of emaciated human beings. Things like images of real murders and genocide victims have also been used before

If these are the only things that will be linked as triggers, then okay, that's clear enough. I was away from fandom space when the term "trigger" came into vogue, and I don't feel like I always have a good handle on what it is supposed to encompass. (In one comm I follow, for example, people now warn if a fic explicitly states a character's weight -- apparently it is a "common trigger" for people with eating disorders.)

So then the discussion really is: what is porn?

And if we're discussing a certain secret here, I think I know which is is, and I would not designate that as porn. A woman who is covering all 'naughty bits' might be provocative, but not pornographic...

A woman who is covering all 'naughty bits' might be provocative, but not pornographic...

ITA. I mean, that's the sort of thing that might be on a BILLBOARD (or at least TV add), no?

I prefer embedded just for the ease of it/loading. Personally I don't mind even explicit stuff, but the no genitals-nipples-or gut-wrenching gore seems to be a good rule for putting it in the body.

You do state that it's not work safe on top, and maybe you could make it have a red warning like trigger secrets, but still embedded.

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