[ SECRET POST #1496 ]

[case]

⌈ Secret Post #1496 ⌋

Warning: Some secrets are NOT worksafe and may contain SPOILERS.

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Notes:

Secrets Left to Post: 12 pages, 293 secrets from Secret Submission Post #214.
Secrets Not Posted: [ 0 - broken links ], [ 0 - not!secrets ], [ 0 - not!fandom ], [ 1 2 - too big ], [ 1 2 3 - repeat ].
Current Secret Submissions Post: here.
Suggestions, comments, and concerns should go here.

Comments

[archerstar.livejournal.com]

And I'd go so far as to say the actions of each (with the exception of Warren) were eventually explained away. Faith came from a bad home and was traumatized by the murder of her watcher. She was forgiven. The Trio were just misguided and under the leadership of a true sociopath. They were forgiven. Gwendolyn was consumed by the need for power. It wasn't really her fault. Willow was much the same. She was forgiven.

In all of these situations, the characters with the souls are forgiven, with barely there reasoning, whereas characters without souls are never allowed to do good things. They can never grow. How can they be good? They have no souls. It seems hypocritical to say that those without souls are evil, but those with them are bastions of light and good. They aren't.

I thought the one thing that became clear on the show was that it didn't matter if you had a soul or not. Bad things were bad things. And saying that Angelus was the one who killed Ms. Calendar and therefore Angel should be forgiven seems counter-intuitive. They're the same person.

[(Anonymous)]

The argument that soulless creatures could no good bothered me even more than the claim that souled people could always somehow be forgiven. Perhaps the best example was Spike. He was a kickass character who occasionally did good (even if it was often simultaneously self-serving - just like any other person in the world), but no one would really accept him as a potential ally until they gave him a soul (and made him completely boring and...toothless).

You can't convince me that Spike (or Angel or fill-in-the-blank) didn't love, didn't regret, didn't recognize emotions beyond Kill!Destroy! But oh no, only people with souls could really feel things.

Their approach to dealing with rather complex issues was just so incredibly superficial and black-and-white. That's disappointing.

[archerstar.livejournal.com]

Yeah, Spike is my most obvious example. Yes, he may have been getting something out of it, but like you said, what human doesn't do things for selfish reasons? And as the seasons progressed, he did things out of love for another being, human or not. I believe (and will continue to believe) he loved Dawn. A "soulless demon incapable of love (or empathy/whatever)" would have given up Dawn as the key to Glory in a heartbeat.

But there are tons of demons we see in the show who are completely harmless or who even do good things but "don't have souls". Take Clem, for instance. He took care of Dawn out of the goodness of his heart, which apparently, he's not supposed to be able to do. Or Brachen (sp?) demons like Doyle. Kind of scary looking, but completely harmless to humans.

Yeah. They kind of failed at dealing with complex metaphysical issues. I would get so encouraged and think they were going in the right direction and then they'd completely blow that out of the water.

[kallanda-lee.livejournal.com]

It's sort of a Cacth 22, isn't it?

I mean, if he had no capacity for good without a soul, why did he feel so bad about what he did to Buffy that he went and fight to get a soul?

[archerstar.livejournal.com]

Yeah, exactly.

Either he can't, or he can. But then don't have him feel guilt and suffer through getting a soul, only to say that he's only capable of those feelings now that he has it. It makes you (the writers) look like jackasses.

[angary.livejournal.com]

That is how I saw it too. His demeanor, his casual determination, saying stuff like, "Bitch is gonna see a change,"... I think he wanted to come back and get his revenge. I always saw his plot in that ep as a misdirect leading up to the cliffhanger of him getting his soul back, not as him out and out desperate to make amends and atone the whole time. It was getting the soul that made him atone and feel massive guilt/despair in S7.

[yourlivewire.livejournal.com]

i never really got the impression that they forgave faith, tbh.

[you-speak-lies.livejournal.com]

And she was the only one who actually did the work to earn it.

[yourlivewire.livejournal.com]

true facts, ma'am, true facts. and even her trying wasn't good enough for them.