[ SECRET POST #1544 ]

[case]

⌈ Secret Post #1544 ⌋

Warning: Some secrets are NOT worksafe and may contain SPOILERS.

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23. [TRIGGER WARNING for sexual abuse]



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40. [tb]



Notes:

Secrets Left to Post: 12 pages, 286 secrets from Secret Submission Post #221.
Secrets Not Posted: [ 0 - broken links ], [ 0 - not!secrets ], [ 0 - not!fandom ], [ 1 2 - too big ], [ 1 2 - repeat ], [ 1 - omfg use .png ].
Current Secret Submissions Post: here.
Suggestions, comments, and concerns should go here.

Comments

[fscom.livejournal.com]

09. http://img860.imageshack.us/img860/9162/thefirst.png

[(Anonymous)]

It's not like Buffy was 12, sheesh. Mid to late "teens" (because even though 18/19 are still technically "teen" years, they're also widely considered young adult years, too) is not unreasonable for a relationship of that magnitude. You know, minus the soul-losing, fish-killing psychomania parts.

[(Anonymous)]

I don't know, I'm in my late twenties and I can't stand most teenagers. There is a whole lot of maturing done in late teens and twenties, and I can't imagine being 150 years old and thinking those kinds of issues/attitudes/maturity attractive.

And I can't help but think that if the actor playing Angel was older than he was at the time, that people would have more of a problem with it.

[resounding-echo.livejournal.com]

But Buffy was like, fifteen.

[badalice.livejournal.com]

She was 17. Younger than I was the first time. *shrug*

[badalice.livejournal.com]

er, older*
Can't edit, my b. :o

[resounding-echo.livejournal.com]

I just remember Buffy always having awful birthdays, so the one with Angelus was one she turned 18? I thought it was 16.

[badalice.livejournal.com]

Nope, she turned 17. :) Her 18th birthday was the Cruciamentum from the Council, which lead to Giles' getting fired.

[resounding-echo.livejournal.com]

Thanks for the clarification. :)

And it's not being sexually active at her age that I find suspect, it's his age as her choice of partner.

[badalice.livejournal.com]

No prob!

And I do agree with you, even when I rewatch the series (and still love them together), it's kind of like "...wat?"

[(Anonymous)]

I agree.

I know a lot of people say oh he's a vampire and age doesn't really matter anymore to him, but I still found it kind of pedo of him to crush on and lust after high school girls.

[resounding-echo.livejournal.com]

Wow, I've never been in the Buffy fandom but I've been a fan for years, and is this really an unpopular opinion? I would think it's like the most obvious interpretation the writers wanted one to take away from that relationship.

[joyful.livejournal.com]

Ditto. I thought this was the canon understanding, and I've been in Buffy fandom for over a decade.

[(Anonymous)]

Well, she's a slayer. I think her life expectancy was much lower than most girls so waiting too long wasn't necessarily an option.

[(Anonymous)]

Not to mention that she's far more mature than most girls her age

[xerxes92.livejournal.com]

Which is why it made absolutely no sense to me for Angel to dump her. She's not expected to survive the next ten years anyway! You're not going to be dating an old lady!

[aeka.livejournal.com]

Except Angel wouldn't let Buffy die for anything if he can help it. So even if he knows the slayer isn't even expected to last ten years alive, it still wouldn't stop him from doing what he has to do to make sure she can. It's also the reason he decided against staying human for her because he knew he would have been powerless in a dangerous situation, and Buffy would take great risks to protect him, thus cutting her life short in the process.

So given the circumstances and the immense love that he has for her, it actually made perfect sense for him to break up with her. Not only is he not able to make love to her without unleashing Angelus and putting her and her friends in danger, but he also wanted to give her the chance to have a normal relationship with a normal guy (even if it kills him inside) if nothing else in her life can be normal.

[(Anonymous)]

I didn't find it weird at the time because I was Buffy's age when I watched it, but when you're a teen you always think you're more mature then you are. I agree that Angel should have waited, but we needed that whole plot point of him losing his soul to make season 2 interesting.

But Angel/Buffy are not my OTP really, Angel got so much more interesting when he left and got his own show so I always got annoyed when people complained they weren't together anymore. I don't mind if Buffy/Angel is endgame but before the endgame having them on two separate shows is so much better.

[valenciapilgrim.livejournal.com]

I wouldn't say that Buffy "didn't have a healthy love life" after Angel. Her relationship with Riley was very healthy. He was good to her, they respected each other, they had common interests, and they had a good sex life. Yeah, they broke up eventually. That happens.

One of the big main-ideas of the show was that if you are a young woman you're not somehow "broken" if you don't have a serious boyfriend AL ALL TIMES!!! Remember her speech to Angel in the finale, where she said that she was cookie-dough and she wasn't done baking yet? Yes, Buffy and Spike had a twisted relationship, but again, that was Joss trying to illustrate that it's perfectly *normal* to go through turmoil in your 20's. (He said that, I can't remember exactly where he said it, but he did)

Another thing Joss said is that healthy relationships aren't interesting. Conflict is interesting. He ended both of Willow's BIG relationships (OZ and Tara) and Xander's too (Cordy and Anya), and Willow and Xander were never statutorially raped.

[aeka.livejournal.com]

I agree with every point in your comment, though I have to disagree that Buffy's relationship with Riley was anymore healthy than the other relationships she's had. It is true that Riley was able to give her all the things she couldn't get with Angel such as trust, good sex, and he treated her as more of an equal, but one of the things that was also emphasised in the show (and what ultimately led to their break-up) was that the relationship was mostly one-sided. Healthy relationships need mutual loving and giving, as well as open communication and honesty, and so on, in order to survive, and all of these elements were absent in the Buffy/Riley relationship.

Riley did all the giving in the relationship, was very open and honest with Buffy (at least in the beginning anyway), and he even tried to be there for her whenever she hit a rough patch. He was more or less "the perfect boyfriend" in that regard. She on the other hand kept him at a distance and only went to him when it was convenient for her, and this was something he was well aware of. He was also well-aware of the fact that his relationship with Buffy lacked any of the passion that she had with Angel, which further reiterated his feelings of inadequacy.

If anything, the Buffy/Riley relationship just further supports the point that you made about Joss commenting on the fact that healthy relationships aren't interesting. It was very much a consistent pattern in ALL of the show's relationships.

[valenciapilgrim.livejournal.com]

See, idk, I haven’t watched the show in a while, but I don’t remember Buffy withholding affection, communication, or honesty from Riley, at least not at first (maybe toward the end, was there some stuff with Spike she didn’t tell him? I don’t remember). I mean, they were together season four and season five, to me it seemed like the span where their relationship was good was supposed to have lasted about a year or so? (a long time for a college relationship!) I felt like when season five started they were in a good place, like they had just spent a lazy summer together having fun (we just don’t get to see it, cause, boring! Right Joss?) Plus, He went through a lot of hard stuff toward the end of season 4, and I felt like she was there for him for that.

Also, you say “his relationship with Buffy lacked any of the passion that she had with Angel”, and I guess, in a way that’s probably true. But I always just thought that all of her relationships were written specifically to be a certain “type” of guy that a girl dates at different points in her life. Angel was the hot, passionate, firecracker-burst of young love that burns bright but burns out too quickly. Next, on to Riley, the “normal guy” and the “good guy”. The writers all but said, “He’s from IOWA, for pete’s sake, can we get any more flagrant than this??? He’s honest, straight-forward, corn-fed, old-fashioned, a little boring, you get the point” (I’m sorry, I’m from Iowa, and I’m still bitter about that lazy characterization ). Plus, who could have passion with Marc Blucas? Kid was a block of wood. I’m just sayin.

Anyway, I always just thought that Buffy / Riley were a pretty healthy relationship as far as Joss-world went. One of the best? Probably not. But it was like Buffy was, like, barking up the right tree, or something? She was looking for affection from a guy who was willing to give it to her, and who would treat her right. In the end, she realized that she hadn’t been giving it her all, and she realized that was a mistake. But again, that’s a) normal for younger people to make mistakes in love b)just Joss deciding that Riley had run his course (and the audience wanting him out and Spike in

[aeka.livejournal.com]

I see where you are coming from; I guess what I was trying to get at is that the mutual investment between Riley and Buffy wasn't really there. During season 4, Buffy was still trying to move on from Angel and was willing to get with any guy who showed her any interest or any form of affection. She did that with Parker until she learned that he was only looking for a one-night stand, so that left Riley as the next best available option for her, and even better for her in that he actually wanted a committed relationship.

I don't know if you watched any of Angel season 1, but in the episode where she visits him in LA and he becomes human temporarily, it was made perfectly clear that she was still very much in love with Angel, and if given the opportunity she would be back at his side in a heartbeat. But as we all know, it isn't meant to be, so without being able to have Angel, Riley was once again the next best thing available to her.

The rest of season 4 actually depicted Buffy and Riley's relationship while it was still in the honeymoon stage (meaning that they were willing to overlook all the flaws that were present in the relationship to enjoy the more passionate aspects of this new relationship), and season 5 depicted the relationship after the honeymoon stage. By this point Riley was starting to become aware of the fact that although Buffy does show him affection and makes love to him, he also became aware of the fact that the degree of intimacy between them is not where he wanted it to be, and that she was very emotionally detached from him. These were all things that he pointed out to her in the episode where he dumps her, and Xander further supported Riley's position when he told Buffy "You got burned with Angel. Then Riley shows up...You shut down, Buffy. And you've been treating Riley like the rebound guy, when he's the one who comes along once in a lifetime. He's never held back with you - he's risked it all -and you're about to let him fly because you don't like ultimatums? If what he needs from you just isn't there - for God's sake, let him go. But if it is? If you can go deeper... Let him get to know that raw, unguarded heart you tried to put away... Maybe you'd better risk something too."

All in all, Buffy and Riley *had* the aesthetics of a healthy relationship, but it lacked any of the backbone to support it because the intimacy was never really there to begin with. When it came to Riley, Joss Whedon admitted that he was meant to serve as a complete contrast to Angel by filling in the role of the "nice normal guy who was the healthy relationship type," and was never meant to have the same degree of passion as Buffy and Angel. But as Spike put it "the girl needs some monster in her man, and that's not in your nature." So once again, Joss Whedon and his belief that healthy relationships are boring, lol.