Case (![[personal profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/silk/identity/user.png)
case) wrote in ![[community profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/silk/identity/community.png)
fandomsecrets2011-03-26 04:07 pm
case) wrote in fandomsecrets2011-03-26 04:07 pm
[ SECRET POST #1544 ]
⌈ Secret Post #1544 ⌋
Warning: Some secrets are NOT worksafe and may contain SPOILERS.
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Notes:
Secrets Left to Post: 12 pages, 286 secrets from Secret Submission Post #221.
Secrets Not Posted: [ 0 - broken links ], [ 0 - not!secrets ], [ 0 - not!fandom ], [ 1 2 - too big ], [ 1 2 - repeat ], [ 1 - omfg use .png ].
Current Secret Submissions Post: here.
Suggestions, comments, and concerns should go here.
Re: Is Chrstianity intolerant?
(Anonymous) 2011-03-27 04:40 am (UTC)(link)I wouldn't want to ever FORCE someone to think a certain way, but if I could open people's minds to a new perspective, why not?
Re: Is Chrstianity intolerant?
(Anonymous) 2011-03-27 05:38 am (UTC)(link)Because any change that comes from the outside has to be forced upon someone, which belies what you say next:
I wouldn't want to ever FORCE someone to think a certain way,
If someone thinks a certain way, then the only way you could MAKE them think another way would be through forcing them. That's totally different from offering them a new idea and letting them free to choose how to react to it. Maybe they will change their own mind, maybe they won't; either way, it should be their decision, and theirs alone.
but if I could open people's minds to a new perspective, why not?
Because it's not up to you to decide what people think. People should always be sovereign over their own mind. Offering new perspectives is obviously fine, but forcing people's mind to accept those new perspectives would be abusive.
After all, isn't it exactly what intolerant religions do? They tell people that there's only one right way to think, and that they must change their own opinions to agree with that one right way...
Re: Is Chrstianity intolerant?
(Anonymous) 2011-03-27 05:52 am (UTC)(link)That doesn't mean it's wrong to want to change someone, it's wrong to FORCE change upon a person, but wanting and forcing are two different things. Just as education and brainwashing are two different things.
If we don't ever want people to change, there's no point in education, no point in therapy, no point in yes- even religion. I don't believe in "converting" others the way some religions do it, but giving people other points of view I absolutely believe in.
But thinking and faith are also two different things. I think, I don't have faith.
Re: Is Chrstianity intolerant?
(Anonymous) 2011-03-27 06:26 am (UTC)(link)Yes, I know we really can't. I thought we were talking hypothetically?
That doesn't mean it's wrong to want to change someone
I disagree. To me, wanting to change someone is fundamentally intolerant, and it's where abuse stems from. Wanting to change someone implies that we think that we know better than them how they should be or think. That's utterly disrespectful.
If we don't ever want people to change, there's no point in education, no point in therapy, no point in yes- even religion.
Again: that's the whole difference between wanting to change someone else, and giving other people an opportunity to change themselves. The INTENT with which we teach someone does matter, a lot. It's the difference between "My parents taught me X and Y and they hoped I would agree, but they let me choose for myself," and "In my parents' home, you were taught X and Y and that was it." The former is tolerant, the latter isn't.
But thinking and faith are also two different things. I think, I don't have faith.
I do both.
Re: Is Chrstianity intolerant?
(Anonymous) 2011-03-27 07:05 am (UTC)(link)I ask this question because is it wrong to want to change people who kill? Or hate? Or harm others? What about people who harm themselves?
And related to that, if we can't want change in people, how can we ever expect a change in the world? Do we just sit back and accept the realities, even the ones that hurt us?
Education for the sake of education is admirable, but it is not the everyday reality. People usually have their own interests in mind, and there is always, ALWAYS a bias. I have never once received a truly objective education, in fact that's rather difficult as getting in every view on a subject can take a long time.
Re: Is Chrstianity intolerant?
(Anonymous) 2011-03-27 07:29 am (UTC)(link)I'm not 100% sure, but I think so, yes. Quite simply because we never have all the facts, so how can we play God with someone else by decreeing that they have to change to fit our standards? Just because we think we know better doesn't guarantee that we actually do.
I ask this question because is it wrong to want to change people who kill? Or hate? Or harm others? What about people who harm themselves?
I'd say it's wrong in the sense that it's missing the point. People do all those things for a reason (or many reasons), and it's those reasons that need to be addressed. Change the underlying reason, and people will change themselves.
And related to that, if we can't want change in people, how can we ever expect a change in the world? Do we just sit back and accept the realities, even the ones that hurt us?
I never said you can't want change in people. I said you shouldn't want to make that change in them yourself. I certainly want change in people, and so I teach and explain and encourage, but in the end, I respect that people own themselves and I have no right to EXPECT a change from them.
I have never once received a truly objective education
I'm not sure where this shift to a truly objective education comes from, since I didn't mention that. In fact, I believe it's impossible, and that it's not the point anyway. We all teach with a bias, as you said. However, tolerant teachers accept that their students might not come to agree with them, while intolerant teachers will only respect a student as an equal once said student has modified their own mindset to mirror the teacher's.