fandomsecrets | [ SECRET POST #1544 ]

⌈ Secret Post #1544 ⌋

Warning: Some secrets are NOT worksafe and may contain SPOILERS.

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Notes:

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Flat | Top-Level Comments Only

Also: go ahead and show me a teaching of Christ Himself that was hateful. No, really, I'm serious.

Luke 14:26 “If anyone comes to me and does not hate father and mother, wife and children, brothers and sisters—yes, even their own life—such a person cannot be my disciple."

Seriously serious.

So... Christ wanted only self-hating anti-social disciples? The same man who taught to love one's neighbour as oneself? I don't think so.

Context, again, how does it work?

25 Large crowds were traveling with Jesus, and turning to them he said: 26 “If anyone comes to me and does not hate father and mother, wife and children, brothers and sisters—yes, even their own life—such a person cannot be my disciple.
27 And whoever does not carry their cross and follow me cannot be my disciple.
28 “Suppose one of you wants to build a tower. Won’t you first sit down and estimate the cost to see if you have enough money to complete it?
29 For if you lay the foundation and are not able to finish it, everyone who sees it will ridicule you,
30 saying, ‘This person began to build and wasn’t able to finish.’
31 “Or suppose a king is about to go to war against another king. Won’t he first sit down and consider whether he is able with ten thousand men to oppose the one coming against him with twenty thousand?
32 If he is not able, he will send a delegation while the other is still a long way off and will ask for terms of peace.
33 In the same way, those of you who do not give up everything you have cannot be my disciples.

In short: Christ was warning His would-be disciples that the price to pay to follow Him could be extremely high, including losing their family and even their life.

"Hate" and "be willing to lose" do not mean the same thing. DO NOT. You have to be willing to lose something you hate, but you don't have to go so far as to hate it. But he directs that.

Luke 16: 13 “No one can serve two masters. Either you will hate the one and love the other, or you will be devoted to the one and despise the other. You cannot serve both God and money.”

Hyperbolic language, ever heard of it? Jesus was simply talking about the order of magnitude of difference between loving Him and loving oneself/one's family that could become necessary if one decided to become His disciple. And considering how many of His disciples did get killed for being Christians, He was really doing people a favour by warning them so strongly.

But if you want to keep believing that the same man who kept teaching about loving everyone, and who gave His life because He loved us, also taught about hating oneself and hating one's family, all because of one hyperbolic verse that makes sense when taken in context, be my guest.

I think I'll go on believing he's a fictional character written by many different people, and it made his character inconsistent.

It's a very convenient arguing tactic to say that the text someone else points out is hyperbole, but yours is legit. How can I tell when something is hyperbole and not literal, apart from when it doesn't fit your narrative? Is it when it's not supported elsewhere? How about the passages where Jesus refuses to even see his mother and brothers? Matthew 12:46-50 and Luke 8:19-21.

Which unfortunately can be traced back to the fact that the Bible is originally written in Hebrew and Greek, and even with all the different English translations of it, there is going to be confusion because some words just down have a perfect equivalent from them to English.

This is why many Pastors and Priests and other religious leaders that use the bible learn and study it in the original language. They do so so that can convey it's meaning as clearly as possible, and to explain passages such as that.

The translators of the Bible chose the word "hate", all the way up to the New International Version. If they didn't choose it for it's accuracy and clarity, then I don't know why they did... Christians are perfectly willing to point to the text to make their arguments, but when someone else does, suddenly that person doesn't really understand it. There's something lost in translation.

DA

Christians are perfectly willing to point to the text to make their arguments, but when someone else does, suddenly that person doesn't really understand it. There's something lost in translation.

You've never heard two Christians from different denominations argue while using the Bible, have you?

Of course I have. It's a very contradictory book. And getting back to the main topic... one that is absolutely filled to the brim with material that commands hatefulness, no matter the fact that it's also spilling over with material that directs loving. And people like OP don't understand why we who don't give the damned thing any stock wonder why they hitch their wagon to such a thing when it's so incoherent that announcing you've hitched your wagon to it doesn't even have a useful meaning.

You do understand you're talking about a translation in modern language of something that was written nearly a couple thousand years ago in another language altogether? We're talking about a language where "virgin" merely meant a young woman originally.

[ SECRET POST #1544 ]

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