fandomsecrets | [ SECRET POST #1558 ]

⌈ Secret Post #1558 ⌋

Warning: Some secrets are NOT worksafe and may contain SPOILERS.

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Notes:

Secrets Left to Post: 12 pages, 291 secrets from Secret Submission Post #223.
Secrets Not Posted: [ 0 - broken links ], [ 0 - not!secrets ], [ 0 - not!fandom ], [ 1 2 3 - too big ], [ 1 - repeat ], [ 1 - take it to comments ].
Current Secret Submissions Post: here.
Suggestions, comments, and concerns should go here.

Flat | Top-Level Comments Only

I said I didn't know much about conversions; the idea of living through a year of festivals makes sense and should have occurred to me on its own.

I have a feeling we're defining Orthodox in different ways. In case it helps, I'm defining 'Orthodox' as someone who grew up in Borough Park and now lives in Lakewood (if that means anything to you). Probably the equivalent of living in the Jewish Gateshead and Manchester communities, if you're bringing up London. I'm suggesting that we're not defining it the same way because you have a female name next to your LJ username and have talked about giving sermons; while women in my community would give divrei Torah to other women, they would not lead services.

I didn't interview the couple directly; I was interviewing a woman who runs a maternity gemach for wedding gowns and when I asked her for the 'most interesting' thing that happened in the course of her running it, this was the story she told. But the story was interesting not because she was a convert, but because she was getting married while pregnant and that it was already after her conversion. But I can admit that my details on the story are vague at best.

Sorry if I seem to be making the assumption that you know about conversions! I'm just letting you know what I do about it.

And yes, I yo-yo between Modern Orthodoxy and Masorti Judaism. I wouldn't be quite as strict as to say that anything left of Gateshead isn't Orthodox, though, personally. I have given sermons in services where I wouldn't be able to 'lead' (defining that as leading prayers, as opposed to teaching) and I occasionally attend Masorti egalitarian services. I'm not suggesting that egalitarianism is Orthodox - women's issues are what keeps me more in the Masorti world than the Orthodox world. But anyway, that's enough about me.

I really can't imagine a very strict Beit Din converting her while she's pregnant out of wedlock. I'm not saying it doesn't happen (not all Orthodox conversions are perfect), but I suspect the status of her conversion would probably be questionable because of that. The frustrating thing about Orthodox converions is that they do get questioned by other parts of the Orthodox world.

Oh, that's okay -- I've just recently been 'attacked' on a Jewish women's site for things that I said or people 'assumed' that I implied despite my multiple disclaimers that I wasn't clear on the details of the halacha. Just trying to avoid that again.

What do you mean by 'women's issues'? I'm always curious as to the people who find 'women's roles in Judaism' to be negative or less than ideal. I do not feel this way despite being more aware of the global social scene and politics than most people in my very closed community.

If I'm remembering correctly, the point of converting while pregnant was so that her child should be born Jewish (as her child would have been born to a Jewish mother) and the point of getting married while still pregnant was so that her child would not be a bastard. I'm sure that the issue was more complex than that for her and the Beis Din involved, but that was the gist I got from the woman I spoke with.

Again, I don't know if that makes any sense from a halachic conversion point of view, but I do see why a woman would want her child to be Jewish and not a bastard (according to halacha, which I'm sure must be very confusing in this case when, according to civil law, she was 'married' to her husband at the time of conception. It's also something you wouldn't necessarily want to discuss while in shidduchim). But this is me not knowing the halacha, so :-)

(Also, may I say that it is so strange to engage in these kinds of conversations on LJ? I'm usually quite private about my religious life on LJ)

I'm not against the way that Orthodoxy treats women in general - I don't actually think Orthodoxy's attitudes to women are necessarily sexist, but there are a few things that I think the halacha is more lenient on that the Orthodox world is. Women in tefillin, for example, is not technically halachically problematic (the Talmud even speaks of a woman laying tefillin and the sages having no problem of it; the actual discussion is whether or not a woman should say the b'racha). However, within much of the Orthodox world, this is treated as if it's a great sin and insult to Judaism.

Regarding converting while pregnant... actually, babies under a certain age can go through the mikveh with the mother. It sounds like the issue was more to do with the child not being born out of wedlock (unless there's a discussion about babies going through the mikveh that I'm unaware of).

I don't think I've ever discussed halacha on LJ, either... and certainly not on FandomSecrets! :P

[ SECRET POST #1558 ]

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