[ SECRET POST #1570 ]

[case]

⌈ Secret Post #1570 ⌋


Warning: Some secrets are NOT worksafe and may contain SPOILERS.


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Notes:

Early day today! (:

Secrets Left to Post: 03 pages, 56 secrets from Secret Submission Post #224.
Secrets Not Posted: [ 0 - broken links ], [ 0 - not!secrets ], [ 0 - not!fandom ], [ 1 - too big ], [ 1 - repeats ]
Current Secret Submissions Post: here.
Suggestions, comments and concerns should go here.

Comments

[allstarzs.livejournal.com]

I always think it's hillarious when adults watch Disney Princess movies and push all these issues on fairy tales designed for children.

[anamatics.livejournal.com]

THANK YOU.

[homette.livejournal.com]

end thread

[homette.livejournal.com]

end thread

[tasogare-n-hime.livejournal.com]

Seriously. Why do little girls need their role models to be perfect paragons of whatever this, or that person thinks is feminism is? Honestly does anyone actually know someone whose life was ruined by these "horrible messages" Disney princess movies are teaching little girls?

[allstarzs.livejournal.com]

The only message I got from Disney Princess movies when I was a kid was how much I wanted a pretty dress and how much I wanted to learn ballroom dancing.

[elialshadowpine]

Heh. My favorite was Beauty and the Beast. I learned lust for huge libraries!

[ashley marquardt (from livejournal.com)]

The only message that I ever got was that girls who read are awesome and get the prince, and that I wanted to be a mermaid and wear pimped out dresses.... Sadly those three things are not really compatible... DX

[childings.livejournal.com]

Well, you're right -- as a child I never analyzed the movies that deeply. I think Sleeping Beauty was and still is my favorite Disney movie and Aurora is hardly a role model, I just really loved the look of that movie, the music, Malificent/the dragon, Bill Peet-designed monsters, etc.

[kathkin.livejournal.com]

Sleeping Beauty <3 - for some reason a lot of people I know tend to put that film down all the time. :( I don't think Aurora is that bad a character, relatively speaking - and besides, the fairies make up for it. xD

[meadowphoenix]

Seriously, do you not understand that fairy tales are part of folk literature and that they have a significant place in the culturizing of children? Really? People don't just tell stories for entertainment. Lit. scholars would have a bone to pick with everything you've said here.

[allstarzs.livejournal.com]

Seriously? Seriously?!? It's Disney! The whole point of those films is to be entertained. They are aimed at CHILDREN.

[meadowphoenix]

No. The whole point of films is to make money and get accolades so they can make more films to get more money. So thus they only make films that will be palatable to a target audience. In order to market to children you have to market to parents also. There are many versions of folk and fairy tales. Disney changed and choose the fairy tales that they thought parents would allow their children to go to, i. e. the ones with the happily ever afters and heroines who have never have to do more than hope. Disney made a choice on what they wanted to show. That's social commentary.

[fairhearing.livejournal.com]

lol, fuck literature scholars. The only thing they can see is the inside of their own anuses, as that is where their heads are located.

[meadowphoenix]

Just because they wide majority of academia is pretentious as shit, doesn't mean they don't have a point. Straw argument. It's not just lit scholars, it's also Anthropology and Sociology and Psychology and some disciplines of Neuroscience...

[fairhearing.livejournal.com]

And treating THEIR interpretations as scientific fact is equally misguided. Especially since the newest trendy criticism gets thrown out the window every twenty years and dismissed as bunk. See: Freudian crap.

Although I can see YOU'RE a big fan of parroting trendy overused academic jargon without actually understanding what it means or when to use it. Or would you mind explaining what a "straw argument" might be?

[meadowphoenix]

Straw Man Argument, although it can be shortened to straw argument. You've redirected the argument to scholar head-up-assishness, as if that 1)denies them credibility and 2)refutes my argument at all. Full of straw.

Um...Fiction/Folk Tales as Social Commentary/Examples of Societal Virtue has been a thing since the Greeks at least. Probably in cultures before that, though I don't know as much about Eastern and African folk lit. So, you know, not an innovation. But hey, it's been going pretty strong now. I guess it's been like 3000 years? Maybe they won't throw this one out, huh?

[(Anonymous)]

http://www.endicott-studio.com/rdrm/forconte.html

[meadowphoenix]

Thanks for augmenting my argument.

[princesoup.livejournal.com]

good job disney movies aren't targeted towards lit scholars then lol

didn't even notice i had caps on, oops

[meadowphoenix]

Do you really think Disney would have tried so hard to have independent, self-sufficient females, racially diverse lead characters, a Black "Princess," and a modern Rapunzel, if media scholars hadn't told parents that the regular Disney princesses were sending bad messages to children, particularly girls?

[princesoup.livejournal.com]

tried so hard media scholars hadn't told parents

herein lies the problem. media scholars and parents aren't the ones watching the show, and they're not the ones that the show is aimed at, so their opinions do not count in anything ever.

it's a kids' movie, it's not like kids are gonna look at cinderella and go OH WOW SHE'S WHITE BRB JOINING HITLER YOUTH. it's far more likely that they'll watch it and go OH I WISH I HAD A PRINCE CHARMING TO RESCUE ME FROM DOING CHORES.

disney movies are essentially cartoon versions of wish-fulfillment fantasies, which is why cinderella and all the others basically look like they animated a mary-sue fanfic. if anything, the hidden message is "all bad situations will eventually pass so keep on hoping", rather than "all women are useless and white people are the master race".

kids are most certainly not going to have the intellectual capacity to read further than "cinderella has a pretty dress. i want one."

seriously, if you think disney movies fuck up kids' morals, you need to get out of the kitchen more often.

[meadowphoenix]

I can't decide if you are actually that obtuse, or you really don't understand how marketing works.

Kids don't buy tickets to movies. Parents do. Therefore, parents' opinions are worth gold. Cold, hard, cash. If parents don't like the message they think a movie is sending out, their darling little 6 year olds aren't seeing it and Disney is losing money. Disney's not the only one who notices public opinion. Mattel had to change Barbie into a capable workforce modern woman. Were kids really thinking that Barbie was a materialistic housewife? No. Are parents thinking girls might subliminally get the notion that that is the best option in life. Yes. And since parents have the cash, parents get the doll. Same way for Disney movies.

In other words, what kids are really thinking is almost irrelevant, because they have no say in their lives. However, the newest research on how media affects children and how parents should parent does matter since parents listen to those types of things and then want media to reflect the new research. Companies targeting kids have to target parents. Again, why do you think there are so many adult jokes in Disney movies? They aren't there for the kids.

At any rate, you're reading into what I said. I never said Disney fucks up kids morals (seriously, reading comprehension will do wonders), I said Disney moves with parental public opinion on what fantasy movies teach. If you seriously don't see the move Disney made away from heroines who wait for a prince to solve their problems, and the correlation with the growing call for "strong, female characters," I suggest you get out in the world.

Also, the kitchen? I could see if you said get out in the classroom, but the kitchen? Do you ever make any sense?

[princesoup.livejournal.com]

I can't decide if you are actually that obtuse, or you really don't understand how marketing works.

wow, my point just flew right over your head, huh. just like everything else in the world, it seems, fucking christ.

Kids don't buy tickets to movies. Parents do.

thanks, sherlock, but i'd rather you put your deductive skills towards benifiting society instead of ANALYSING OFFENSIVE MESSAGES IN CHILDRENS' MOVIES

the parents aren't the ones that're going to be influenced by whatever bullshit you think disney movies are projecting into kids, so therefore, they're completely irrelevant to this discussion. really, now, if i wanted to bicker about ways to market things i'd have taken business studies as an option two years ago.

If parents don't like the message they think a movie is sending out, their darling little 6 year olds aren't seeing it and Disney is losing money.

lol curveball. wasn't this entire wankthread about the fact that the OP thinks it's wrong that people consider cinderella to be weak and a bad rolemodel? then it was expanded to consider kids getting influenced by said bad rolemodel?

Were kids really thinking that Barbie was a materialistic housewife? No. Same way for Disney movies.

so i'm right, and disney movies really aren't giving kids any subliminal messages to children that might significantly impede their future life and the only ones that're actually picking up on these awful nasty hidden meanings are the ones old enough to ignore them.

In other words, what kids are really thinking is almost irrelevant, because they have no say in their lives.

apart from the fact that kids being influenced is the entire point of this wank seriously what the hell are you high on, aside from asphyxiation preventing you from thinking clearly

Companies targeting kids have to target parents.

since when have parents ever watched adverts for baby polly or whatever cliche kiddy shit is on TV and thought, "hey, this advert really appeals to me"?

everyone knows that kids are the ones that see these cool new toys and then bug the everliving crap out of their parents until mommy buys it for them. half the time the parent doesn't even know what they're buying for the kid, and is only doing it to get the thing to shut the fuck up, or as a nice treat for behaving during a family dinner.

seriously, ingratiate yourself into how society works or don't comment on it at all.

Again, why do you think there are so many adult jokes in Disney movies? They aren't there for the kids.

obviously because the p.a. department saw a chance to appeal to another age bracket without messing up the main target audience. they want to sell their shit to as many people as possible, and if they throw in a few vague adult jokes, then they've got yet another demographic that might be willing to shell out some money for whatever film there is.

it seems you're the one that doesn't understand marketing, huh.

If you seriously don't see the move Disney made away from heroines who wait for a prince to solve their problems, and the correlation with the growing call for "strong, female characters," I suggest you get out in the world.

i couldn't give a flying shit whether i see a strong character of the same gender as me or not. feminists probably noticed the growing lack of issues in the real world and decided to go bitch about fictional things as well.

(seriously, reading comprehension will do wonders)

so will some friends. why don't you go make some, rather than shitting all over a secret with an OP who actually knows what they're talking about?

Also, the kitchen? I could see if you said get out in the classroom, but the kitchen?

only women can be so hysterical over stupid shit.

and before you start pulling other crap out of your ass, i'm just gonna say that i'm a female. i just happen to find sexism hilarious.

Do you ever make any sense?

must be all those disney movies i've been watching as a kid, huh.

[meadowphoenix]

wow, my point just flew right over your head, huh. just like everything else in the world, it seems, fucking christ.
My point is that you didn't and continue not to have a point.

thanks, sherlock, but i'd rather you put your deductive skills towards benifiting society instead of ANALYSING OFFENSIVE MESSAGES IN CHILDRENS' MOVIES
the parents aren't the ones that're going to be influenced by whatever bullshit you think disney movies are projecting into kids, so therefore, they're completely irrelevant to this discussion. really, now, if i wanted to bicker about ways to market things i'd have taken business studies as an option two years ago.
1)I don't think you have any intellectual clout to say that analyzing offensive messages in children's movies doesn't benefit society and have that statement be worthy of any merit whatsoever.
2)I never said I was analyzing children's movies. This is where reading comprehension would help.
3)The original argument was on whether adults analyzing children's movies was silly. I said that the point of fairy tales was to have a impact on the children they were being told to, and lit scholars would agree (as would ancient scholars). Thus analyzing those movies for their messages wasn't, in fact, silly. You said it was a good thing they weren't targeted toward lit scholars then. My further point was that they might as well be considering how involved parents are with the messages their children receive, and how much parents listen to studies on media reception in children, and how seriously Disney takes all of that. So yes, there is quite a bit of relevance in the response to your comment.

lol curveball. wasn't this entire wankthread about the fact that the OP thinks it's wrong that people consider cinderella to be weak and a bad rolemodel? then it was expanded to consider kids getting influenced by said bad rolemodel?
And what are your rhetorical questions meant to imply? I never said I thought Cinderella was a good or bad role model. I never said parents think one way or the other about Cinderella. I just said they think about what their kids are watching and Disney pays attention to that.

so i'm right, and disney movies really aren't giving kids any subliminal messages to children that might significantly impede their future life and the only ones that're actually picking up on these awful nasty hidden meanings are the ones old enough to ignore them.
The number of women who want their pretty polly pocket princess dress for their wedding, and think that instead of communicating their desire for marriage they should wait for their boyfriends to sweep them off their feet in a ridiculously romantic way would prove you wrong, tbh. At any rate, parental involvement doesn't mean they aren't getting messages. There have been surveys which have shown that African-American children, for instance, believed (it was a decade or so ago) white skin was more beautiful than black skin which they correlated to the lack of African-American dolls. It's not a stretch to see how this would correlate also to other mediums such as movies.

apart from the fact that kids being influenced is the entire point of this wank seriously what the hell are you high on, aside from asphyxiation preventing you from thinking clearly
Children don't usually have a habit of articulating the social messages they get from movies to the Disney corp, just so you know. As far as Disney's concerned, their thoughts are irrelevant, which is who I was talking about. As far as parents are concerned is a different matter.