Case (![[personal profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/silk/identity/user.png)
case) wrote in ![[community profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/silk/identity/community.png)
fandomsecrets2011-04-25 07:38 pm
case) wrote in fandomsecrets2011-04-25 07:38 pm
[ SECRET POST #1574 ]
Warning: Some secrets are NOT worksafe and may contain SPOILERS.
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Notes:
Secrets Left to Post: 07 pages, 173 secrets from Secret Submission Post #225.
Secrets Not Posted: [ 0 - broken links ], [ 1 - not!secrets ], [ 1 - not!fandom ], [ 1 2 3 - too big ], [ 1 - repeats ], [ 1 - unreadable ].
Current Secret Submissions Post: here.
Suggestions, comments and concerns should go here.
no subject
Um... that's exactly the kind of help I was talking about. They need to keep themselves in check.
HowEVER it's still not okay to say "Porn keeps pedophiles off the street. --THAT is what I keep on saying. I still don't know why you can't see how that ties in rape with attraction. That is just begging for people to keep inspecting what the kids are wearing -kids and not only that but you've also just called people who divulge in lolishota pedophiles. Most people here seem to be saying otherwise and you're just proving them wrong.
Also disregard the word appropriation. I mixed up meanings of words. But saying that attraction leads to rape and that unable to direct that attraction will force them to molest kids is... I still don't see how you can't see what's wrong with that. Fyi that's not the truth. It's horrible that that happened to you too but you don't speak for all victims. I've had people try to abuse me and I can safely say that it was the slippery slope factor which led to it.
The subjective experience of most pedophiles is that they adore kids and have no desire to cause harm. The idea that a kid will like the molestation and even be enhanced as a person by it is typically a large part of their self-justifications. It is self-serving in that they perceive it that way because they want to, but it's not malicious.
One of the men who abused me as a child used to call me all the goddamn time on the phone to gush about my hair, my eyes, my voice, my presence in his life in general, how smart I was, what a great future I had, and how much he cherished time with me.
But seriously... I'm nauseous just hearing that.
I'm still not sure what you mean to say by "conscious desire to cause harm". What do you intend to say to pedophiles them? Telling them it's okay to be overly friendly with kids isn't cool, which is what they will do if they don't keep themselves in check.
no subject
Um... that's exactly the kind of help I was talking about.
Gotcha. People generally seem to only say that sort of thing when they think pedophilia is an abuse-acquired fetish that can be cured through talk therapy.
HowEVER it's still not okay to say "Porn keeps pedophiles off the street. --THAT is what I keep on saying.
For some bewildering reason. BECAUSE I'VE NEVER SAID THAT ONCE.
Also, MASTURBATION DOES NOT AUTOMATICALLY EQUAL PORN. I don't know what world you live in where someone can say, "Okay, in case this was contextually confusing, I just want to clarify that I'm not talking about porn, JUST TALKING 'BOUT FAPPING." And all you hear is, "PR0N!"
I might say that "masturbation keeps pedophiles off the streets" - IF we're talking about someone who is working to keep a high level of self-awareness about their sexuality and is masturbating in that mindset.
I have never said - and never WILL say - that pedophiles (or any other men!) need to be provided with porn, or we can expect them to get all rape-y because they can't control themselves otherwise.
but you've also just called people who divulge in lolishota pedophiles.
Okay, actually just noticed this line on the second attempt at this comment.
What the actual fuck. I have no idea where you're getting this from.
ut saying that attraction leads to rape and that unable to direct that attraction will force them to molest kids is... I still don't see how you can't see what's wrong with that.
I don't think attraction leads to rape. As I've said.
I think that what leads to rape, in this case, is usually an attraction PLUS the long cognitive process of self-justifying acting on that attraction.
The former alone doesn't necessarily lead to anything.
But the latter wouldn't exist without the former, and I don't think it's perpetuating rape culture to say so.
I don't personally believe porn has ANYTHING to do with it. Not that I have any solid empirical evidence to back me up, but the people who believe that watching porn inevitably leads to sexual violence don't have solid empirical evidence either.
I've had people try to abuse me and I can safely say that it was the slippery slope factor which led to it.
See, when I was talking about a slippery slope, I never ONCE meant porn.
But you seem to here. I feel like your argument is the contradictory one. I mean, you've stated you're horrified by the idea that attraction leads to rape. Okay. For obvious reasons. But you seem okay with arguing that PORN leads to rape.
What is porn except a representation of attraction and fantasy? Your position doesn't make any sense. If people can control their actions before watching porn, they should be able to afterward, too.
But seriously... I'm nauseous just hearing that.
Well, I wasn't. I mean, I dreaded time with him. But I ate up the praise. It meant that someone - anyone! - liked me. Because there was no mistaking his sincerity.
I think that's what you're not grasping when you say:
I'm still not sure what you mean to say by "conscious desire to cause harm".
What's confusing about that?
If I could just find this book I own, I could quote you a sadistic, sociopathic pedophile describing (with great self-satisfaction) how he started abusing an infant with the eventual intention of breaking her mind and spirit and making her his "perfect sex slave."
THAT'S a conscious desire to cause harm. Most pedophiles aren't actually like that.
Compare this with the pedophiles on the message boards who worry about the kids they're molesting having trouble with their homework, fights with their parents, grief over losing their grandparents, etc. They DON'T want to cause harm; self-servingly, they have therefore managed to convince themselves that their actions are not harmful.
If you INTEND to cause harm, you don't bother to justify an action to yourself as harmless. If you justify it to yourself as harmless, it's probably because you don't want to cause harm.
What do you intend to say to pedophiles them?
"You're wrong," strikes me as an option.
no subject