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fandomsecrets2007-06-09 05:19 pm
grayout.livejournal.com) wrote in fandomsecrets2007-06-09 05:19 pm
[ SECRET POST #155 ]
⌈ Secret Post #155 ⌋
Warning: Some secrets are NOT worksafe and may contain SPOILERS.
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Notes:
Secrets Left to Post: 05 pages, 114 secrets from Secret Submission Post #023.
Secrets Not Posted: 0 broken links, 0 not!secrets, 0 not!fandom.
Next Secret Post: Tomorrow, Sunday, June 10th, 2007.
Current Secret Submission Post: Here.
Suggestions, comments, and concerns should go here.
no subject
First off, just how long have you been writing? Please don't take this as an insult- your writing comes off as far, far above an amateur writer. There are awkward phrases and some grammar errors in there, but those things can be fixed with a simple beta or a few careful read-throughs of your work.
I know you've had this word thrown at you repeatedly today: characterization. Now, no one expects (or should expect, anyhow) your interpretations of a character to be the same as someone else's. Everybody sees things differently. You should see how many "emotion/no emotion" Nobody debates are on any KH forum/comm/site, period. :)
However, there are certain "limits", if you will. And if the character you're portraying crosses those limits, it makes the reader go "BUH?". As a very, VERY drastic example, imagine a piece of historical fiction that has Adolf Hitler making peace and love with all his Jewish pals. It's just unbelievable, no?
That's pretty much what readers who object to your writing feel like, to a much lesser extent, of course. I don't mean to hurt your feelings, because every writer has trouble with characterization at least now and then. The more you write, the easier it'll get.
But, when you constantly write characters OOC, that gets easier as well. I've heard you say a few times that your stories aren't meant to be canon or serious, that they're just RPs. You can turn these RPs into really good writing practice! First, dissect your RP-story, analyzing how each character would react in a given situation (be sure not to let your bias for a pairing or romance mess with what the CHARACTER would do!), then rewrite your story canonically. You can post both versions, if you wish, but I bet you'll be surprised how different the secong version will be- and how much people'll like it!
Also, you shouldn't listen to flamers trying to personally insult you. But, you also shouldn't listen to people who mindlessly worship your writing. Both of these can hurt you! I've noticed a lot of your reviewers say only things like "ILU! Best story ever!" and such. These people aren't trying to better your writing, and they don't even care about the work you put into it. They'll just comment and fav anything that has the couple of their preference snuggling or sexing each other up. Watch out for these people!
I'm sorry this post became so long. :) I think you can improve greatly! You just need to be polished up some more. I hope I didn't come off as harsh, because that certainly was not my aim! Believe me, you are nowhere NEAR the worst this fandom has to offer.
no subject
I am glad you did not post anon. It means you back up what you say.
Liquid Fire, the particular fic that everyone is so upset about, is not my best work as far as character. I have admitted that because I -know- that. I kept posting it because a) I do like the storyline it has and b) People really enjoyed it to the point of sending me IMs when I did not update fast enough.
Synergy, the fic I have been trying to prove is 'better' in my opinion, is my... opposite of LF. It is far more canon, with every single desicion of plot and character carefully discussed and thought out with its co-author. People say "Oh god, Xemnas wouldn't bite anyone!" yet... I wonder if they really think about the thought process. To us, Xemnas is a very smart, very Alpha male type of mind. Determined and brilliant. We decided that in the heat of a battle, a logical sensible way to subdue a Berserker that cannot limit itself to pain in a way that does not harm him or get anyone else hurt, as well as to regain the control that Xemnas was realizing he was losing? In one fell swoop, by acting like an alpha and biting. It controlled Saix and did everything Xemnas was hoping it would do. We made sure to include his 'feelings' on how that occured - the akward 'embarassment' and bruising of ego...
Yet all people do, "Oh noes he wouldn't bite!"
And despite the much more carefully written Synergy, all people will remember and think about is the fic of mine they do not like. I did not ask anyone to read the fic. I have found fics I dislike and so... I just ignore them. I skip past the fic and keep going. I don't go around to comms and leave rants, or sneak around behind the author's back and sneer at them.
*goes through your post again* I have been writing for 12 years now. I write every day for my job and make good money doing it which is seen by a thousand people a day. (I am not bragging, please do not think so! I am just saying what pertains of my job to this post.) Yes, I do have a few issues with grammer sometimes - I've never said I am perfect. With fanfics, I do not write 'professionally' because it is for fun. Besides, at work, I have an editor (a beta) that reads everything. Note that I have no beta for my current fanfics because no one has offered and I find it very rude to ask.
So many people... have just told me I am a terrible writer and that they despise me because of a piece of writing. ONE piece of writing. And yes, I have been trying not to take it to heart. But it does hurt. It is impossible for it to not when someone hates you. The people who 'mindlessly' worship my work scare me once in a while, but then I turn around and find that they are very well spoken and kind sometimes. I am happy to be able to please some people. According to the 'hating-people' I do not put any work into my fics. Sometimes that is true - the writing flows and we just guide it a bit, and other times I have argued with my co-author(s) until we get something settled and right. Even just recently, Jaded (co-author on LF) and I agreed to stop writing because we had lost our place in our current fic and decided to re-think it later once we had a better grip.
I think what bothers me the most, though I might be reiterating now, is that people take one piece of fiction and think that every single other thing I have written is exactly like that.
Your post is a perfect length. Thank you for being one of the VERY few people who have responded back to me in a kind and honest way. You do not come off as harsh at all, only openly honest. And the way people talk, you would think I -was- the worst this fandom has to offer. Sigh.
no subject
If you admit the characters are OOC in "Liquid Fire"... then why do you care if other people call them OOC?
Some (possibly most) people don't like reading OOC!fic. I personally don't, and so I don't read them. But I can still be annoyed by people posting/spamming OOC!fic (especially with a marker saying OOC!fic here! Look, I write them OOC because I can!) and annoyed further by crowds of people going "OMG! Write moar PLZ!! ILU!!" because it promotes OOC!fic in the fandom. And the whole point of fandom is to love the characters for who they are, IC, so it kind of defeats the purpose, sort of? If you read an epic fic where Hughes prances around in a tutu all the time, written JUST BECAUSE THE AUTHOR COULD, you'd be annoyed, wouldn't you?
I'm not going to read Synergy. Most of these people aren't going to read Synergy. So what? If they think you're a bad writer/characterizer(uhhhsure) from one piece of writing that you ADMIT is OOC, that's their problem, not yours. There are some authors (God, Ouran fandom screws Mori up the ass so HARD) that I actively avoid because ALL their writing is OOC (and most of them tag all of them as "OOC" which makes me wonder why they bother if it's not even the same character, really). But if it's just this one story, who cares?
Sure, people are going to think that your characterization is off. But you know that. Sure, people are going to think that your writing sucks on the basis of one piece. But that's what happens with first impressions. Sure, people are going to be annoyed that you spam updates. But that's the same with any story (they'd be annoyed if it was a pairing they hated too, I bet). And sure, people are going to blame you for fan-idiots who think your story is IC and base their characterizations off yours-which-you-admit-are-OOC. But that's their problem, not yours.
Bottom line is, people are stupid. I'm stupid, too. There are certain writers in certain fandoms that I hate and refuse to give another chance, because the first few impressions were so terrible (and it was so bad you just KNOW even asking "would character A really do that?" is a waste of time). It happens, and a lot of OOC!fic writers are like that. Maybe you're the exception? But being that, you've gotta understand that MOST OOC!fic writers really couldn't give less of a shit and fandom people have gotten used to that and will treat you accordingly, even if it's not entirely your fault.
I guess what I'm saying is, you have every right to write what you like. But everybody else has every right to dislike it, too. So what? Is that going to make you stop? If you want to get people to stop disliking what you do, change (and if the disliking people don't tell you HOW to change or WHAT they dislike, it's just as much their fault as yorus). And if you don't want to change, then to hell with everyone else (everybody is disliked by SOMEBODY, right). Do what makes you happy.
I'd end this inspiringly but I can't think of anything.
no subject
The problem I have is that people don't just keep their dislike to themselves, instead they sneak around (and I'm using another person's words with 'sneak') and make terrible comments and images about someone else's work which they do not have to read. Imagine if you were at school, and suddenly a friend of yours goes, "Grayout, I just found out this rumor about you..." And you find out that most of the school has been laughing at you behind your back. It is painful and you just can't believe it. You admit that (perchance) you gained some pounds, but then having the rumor be you're a whore and pregnant? That is sort of how I feel about this thing. (Forgive my language, I do not mean to offend, just popped into my head as an example.)
If you read an epic fic where Hughes prances around in a tutu all the time, written JUST BECAUSE THE AUTHOR COULD, you'd be annoyed, wouldn't you?
I would do a O.o and just not read the fic. I would not berate it or hate the person that wrote it.
People say I 'spam.' People don't even understand what is going on. In all of my fics, they have been PREWRITTEN. As in we had been working on it for a while and are posting the beginning when we're months into it already. So I can afford to update more then some authors who are writing chapter-to-chapter. I didn't realize that being able to update often was considered bad.
But if it's just this one story, who cares?
It seems, sadly, a lot of people care, or none of this would have happened.
It happens, and a lot of OOC!fic writers are like that. Maybe you're the exception? But being that, you've gotta understand that MOST OOC!fic writers really couldn't give less of a shit and fandom people have gotten used to that and will treat you accordingly, even if it's not entirely your fault.
I do care about my writing and people's comments, or I wouldn't be here typing this. People just... I came to defend myself from some very nasty comments and all I do, when I am nothing but polite and honest, is get yelled at, laughed at, hated. That is what hurts and bothers me so much.
Ness... ah, the poster above you, she/he was the first person who really sat down and spoke the honest and open truth while not sounding mean and downright cruel. I mean, I had people COME TO MY LIVEJOURNAL and troll post! I... I mean, guh?? >.<
Was defending myself stupid? Trying to offer evidence that maybe people are wrong? I mean... there are a ton of people who have not even READ my fic and just hate me/it on principle! I try to offer some proof that I can write in other fashions, and people tell me I am 'name dropping' and 'desperate' and such things. It just feels like I cannot win!
Thank you for your post, by the way. I hope you respond.
no subject
"I would do a O.o and just not read the fic."
Exactly, but what if it was a continued series where he kept doing that and it was posted all over comms you watch? Plus, you wouldn't know he did that until you read the first chapter, went wtf, then stopped. And then you see another chapter up, and another, and another, continuing along the same vein, and all these people comment saying OMG ILU THIS IS G8! I mean, not that I'm condoning attacking you anonymously or trolling you, but you can see how it gets on people's nerves, right?
By asking 'who cared,' I was kinda advising you not to.
"I don't care that people call the chars in LF OOC. I care that they say ALL of my work is like that. Big difference, to me."
But they haven't READ all your work and therefore can't judge it all. If you make that argument to any unbiased person, they'll understand that you're not the one being obtuse about it here. I get that and I haven't even read any of your stuff. And if they don't want to then well... their opinion has no basis.
Also, unrelated but funny:
"You admit that (perchance) you gained some pounds, but then having the rumor be you're a whore and pregnant?"
*DEAD* Mpreg! aeghajkeghaekjtghkej
no subject
By really... thank you for your posts. They gave me a lot to think about.
no subject
Oh yeah, by that I meant like, you can understand why, not saying that they SHOULD or that they're RIGHT in feeling this way. I'd be irritated probably but I wouldn't bash the author. >>"
no subject
Well, no offense to you at all, but a huge amount of writers, good, great, mediocre, and horrible take any criticism like you're insulting their Mamas. Dangerous stuff.
At least you were admitting LF was OOC. There's nothing wrong with it, people can write what they want, but I'm sure if you said "This is the best completely canon piece of fic EVER," you'd have gotten flamed to high heaven.
A lot of people do just go on if they don't enjoy your writing. Some forget about it, some may check up on you later to see if you have anything else they're interested in, some people spork your work (which personally I think is mean, but it's leaps above outright flaming, and it's supposed to be funny), and some people just rag on you. Those last people are immature. And I know this might step on someone's toes if they see this, but that certain piece of concrit someone left for you that asked if you even played the games really was uncalled for(It might have been for Synergy, I don't remember, I was just linked to the thread by a friend). It crossed the line between harsh concrit and a flame. Like I said, don't bother trying to defend yourself against people like that. They just laugh at you for it. Just say something like "Eh, whatever."
I haven't read Synergy, so I can't comment on the "biting" bit, but it sounds like you thought it out nicely. I'll read it later tonight when I have more time, and concrit it if I may..? I promise not to go batshit insane on you. ;)
Unfortunately, that's how reps go. You got a reputation in this fandom for "spamming" and long OOC fic with a few groups of people. I don't agree that it's far, because it isn't, but it's just the way it is. Sucks sometimes, right?
Twelve years? Oh, do you work for a newspaper or journal or something? If I had to write for a job I probably wouldn't get any writing done (haha, just graduated high school this year, and I had AP English, which meant an ungodly amount of essays. I wrote almost nothing creatively all year.) Pssh, everyone makes grammar and spelling mistakes. It's just human, and I know it can be hard to spot some things. I don't use a beta, either. I know it helps, but I'm with you there; I don't want to appear rude or needy to someone!
I understand you. It does hurt when someone insults something you worked hard to create. Heck, most of the time it hurts when someone says something nicely, just because people cherish what they write, like I said above. I've experienced this sort of thing before, so I try to be nice when I give concrit. (Sometimes I wonder if flamers actually write themselves, because being on the receiving end of one is horrible.) I think one of my favorite fanfic authors explained it best in one of her journals:
CRITIC: You're fat.
WRITER: Well, I could stand to lose a few pounds.
CRITIC: And your mother is fat.
WRITER: Well, I guess the menopause hit her kinda hard.
CRITIC: And your heroine Clarissa is fat.
WRITER stabs Critic with steak knife and leaves the restaraunt shrieking: Clarissa is as slender as a wood nymph, it says so on page 304 of my magnum opus! No jury in the world would convict me!
(This came from
And forget people who say you put no effort in your work. The only person who knows how much work you put into something is you! And people that really, truly "hate" you for writing are complete and utter nimrods, whether you're the best there is or the worst.
Why, thank you. :) I'm glad I don't come off badly. Oh, God, I wish you were the worst this fandom had to offer. We would be so much better off! I shudder at the thought of the things I've seen in just a few years. And I have to say, I'm really glad you're taking this so well. I know so many people who would throw a bitch fit if this happened to them!
no subject
"Thank the gods!"
I mean, that really hurt. I thought it was downright cruel. I said they should leave and troll someone else, that I didn't deserve that sort of comment, and they replied,
"You sure do deserve it!"
*sigh* So that is the level of mean I am talking about with some people.
I would be beyond honored if you would read the two chapters of Synergy that are up. Yume and I take a look at how Saix is born, what he was before he was reborn, and his first days at the Castle. We used some very old celtic and Indian rituals to influence the Ceremony. Ah... Please, be perfectly honest and specific and rip it to hell if you so desire. A REAL look at my fic... I would be so happy.
Your friend
I can't really say where I work exactly. It is a really huge US wide company and it is REALLY easy to look up the information on me quickly. I run their website and promotional stuff for thousands of viewers... possibly over ten-thousand. ^^;
Thank you, and I absolutely cannot wait for your review of Synergy. You have been an absolute pleasure to 'talk' to. ^_^
no subject
I've begun the first chapter as we "speak." I'm sure it won't come to ripping it to hell, though. :P
The lady
Ah, no problem, I wasn't looking for specific places, haha. Sounds interesting!