fandomsecrets | [ SECRET POST #1614 ]

⌈ Secret Post #1614 ⌋

Warning: Some secrets are NOT worksafe and may contain SPOILERS.

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Notes:

Secrets Left to Post: 09 pages, 218 secrets from Secret Submission Post #231.
Secrets Not Posted: [ 0 - broken links ], [ 1 2 3 - not!secrets ], [ 0 - not!fandom ], [ 0 - too big ], [ 0 - repeat ], [ 1 - posted twice ].
Current Secret Submissions Post: here.
Suggestions, comments and concerns should go here.

Flat | Top-Level Comments Only

Men and women are treated differently in real life.

Newsflash: DA and ME are not real life

I for one was glad to see universes in which somebody's gender actually didn't matter.

>I for one was glad to see universes in which somebody's gender actually didn't matter.

THIS THIS THIS.
THIS FOREVER.

That was one of the selling points of the games for me - gender? Sex? Sexuality? Nobody in the game gave a shit.

I agree.

This, very much.

Agreed so hard.

This. It's an escapism fantasy for me. Also, "men with boobs" rubs me the wrong way, specially when it's used to criticize a woman's personality.

Why? They took a male avatar and changed the cosmetic effects and the voice actor. "A man with boobs" is pretty much what it is.

A woman in real life who had personality traits that are associated with conventional masculinity would not be a man with boobs, obviously.

I was mostly referring to women in real life but also in media. I'm a very mannish woman, but still a woman, so I have a very low tolerance for this type of comments, since I get them all the time (even from the so called "feminists").

this!

I also enjoy the escapism train.
CHOO CHOO

Just depends on the game for me. If it's in a modern setting for instance, I expect a bit of realism. Especially if all other characters are treated differently according to gender too ("what makes my avatar neutral in that scenario???").

I would rather have social realism, tbh. I mean, especially with a series like DA where they throw the slavery and racism and anti-mage sentiment in your face, it's really weird to not have any sexism. They were aiming for dark: why back off of anything that would make it darker?

No sexism? Have you played as a female warden? I swore that the next person who came up to my character and went "wow! You're a women! I didn't know women could fight!", I would chose the snarky option and attack them.

Not have any sexism. Really? There's lots of people being sexist in DA despite the claims of gender equality. And I can things of ME examples off the top of my head.

Yeah there are tons of people being sexist - just like there are assholes and racists - but no systematic sexism in the universe as a whole, at least not toward the main characters. There's racism against elves and qunari in DA, and racial tensions between nonhumans everywhere in ME, but again it's still not the same as real life.

Social realism to what society? That society obviously does not have the same culture, religion, or history that ours does. Why should sexism exist there? Sexism is not necessarily a universal law.

If DA or ME claimed to be from the present-day real world, then I would agree that the presence of sexism and discrimination of other types would make it more realistic. But they aren't, and they don't claim to be. If ME is based on Earth, then they're far enough in the future to have mostly gotten over it.

This is like someone complaining that a game set in Lord of the Rings doesn't have Christianity oppressing everyone like they did in the medieval age. It doesn't have to work like that because that is not our world.

"a game set in Lord of the Rings doesn't have Christianity"

I find this statement rather ironic because the DA universe does have it's own Crystal Dragon Jesus version of Christianity in the Chantry. A lot of things in DA are just fantastical re-hashes of real world things. Racism against elves? Parallel to real-world racism against blacks or latinos or what-have-you. Prejudice against mages? There's a trope for that (http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/HaveYouTriedNotBeingAMonster). Any brand of sexism would fit in there nicely. It doesn't mean they'd have to have exactly the same type of sexism as we do, but it brings up a big question if it's not there. What kind of society has no sexism? How did they get there? What does gender mean to these people? Honestly, I have a hard time believing there will ever be such a thing as a fully gender-equal society (just like I think it's impossible to eliminate racism or really any form of discrimination. I don't think there's been one in the history of the human race) and if you're going to present one in fiction I want it explained. Without explanation... it just doesn't make sense.

Fantasy is a different world, yes, but it reflects real-life values and ideas in its fantasy.

Re: OP

(Anonymous) - 2011-06-06 02:49 (UTC) - Expand

I disagreed with you when I first read the secret, but I think you have a very valid point re: no systematic sexism. It's kind of like aside from the one "wow, you're a woman!" when you meet someone, nobody is sexist ever again. And maybe Fereldans are just unusually respectful, but after that one instance where they obviously acknowledge that having a girl in the Grey Wardens = kind of unusual, I'd've expected at least some difference in treatment - even if one of the more conventional guys like Alistair made a token and silly 'I must protect you!' gesture of some sort.

Basically, this.

You can't just have everybody treated as a man would get treated and then pretend the treatment is gender-neutral. Male privilege is not the default state of being. A universe in which somebody gender doesn't matter needs a lot of world-building specific to that goal.

Thisthisthisthis!! Anon, you have summed up my thoughts better than I could have.

YES.

yes. I love fem!Shep for that very reason. no silly girlifying. it's actually quite gratifying

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