fandomsecrets | [ SECRET POST #1620 ]

⌈ Secret Post #1620 ⌋

Warning: Some secrets are NOT worksafe and may contain SPOILERS.

01.

[Ano Hi Mita Hana no Namae wo Bokutachi wa Mada Shiranai]

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02.

[Hetalia]

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03.

[Magical Girl Lyrical Nanoha]

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04.

[Michael Silas/Asiel Hardison, Lady Gaga's dancers]

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05.

[Tiger & Bunny]

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06.

[Evangelion]

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07.

[Zero Punctuation]

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08.

[The Catherine Tate Show]

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09.

[Grimgrimoire]

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10.

[wonderful days, guyver, cowboy bebop, texhnolyze, togainu no chi, black lagoon, samurai champloo, aishiteruze baby, tenjo tenge]

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11.

[X-Men: First Class]

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12.

[Tales of the Abyss]

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13.

[Human Target]

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14.

[A Song of Ice and Fire]

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15.

[Masterchef Australia]

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16.

[Sucker Punch]

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17.

[Mystique]

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18.

[Workaholics]

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19.

[Mark Reads]

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20.

[Jamie Campbell Bower ]

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21.

[Hey Arnold!]

[ ----- SPOILERY SECRETS AHEAD ----- ]

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22. [SPOILERS for Homestuck]

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23. [SPOILERS for Gintama]

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24. [SPOILERS for Kamen Rider Kabuto]

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25. [SPOILERS for Loveless]

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26. [SPOILERS for Doctor Who]

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27. [SPOILERS for Mockingjay]

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28. [SPOILERS for Kung Fu Panda 2]

[ ----- TRIGGERY SECRETS AHEAD ----- ]

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29. [TRIGGER WARNING for non-con]

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30. [TRIGGER WARNING for rape]

[Game of Thrones]

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31. [TRIGGER WARNING for eating disorders]

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32. [TRIGGER WARNING for rape]

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33. [TRIGGER WARNING for transphobia?]

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34. [TRIGGER WARNING for rape]

[SPN]

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35. [TRIGGER WARNING for rape, pedophilia]

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36. [TRIGGER WARNING for eating disorders]

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37. [TRIGGER WARNING for self-injury, suicide]

[Manic Street Preachers]

Notes:

Secrets Left to Post: 00 pages, 000 secrets from Secret Submission Post #231.
Secrets Not Posted: [ 1 2 - broken links ], [ 0 - not!secrets ], [ 0 - not!fandom ], [ 1 - too big ], [ 0 - repeats ].
Current Secret Submissions Post: here.
Suggestions, comments and concerns should go here.

Flat | Top-Level Comments Only

23.
http://i55.tinypic.com/108brs8.jpg

Kagura isnt the only stereotype breaker either. Otae is tough as nails despite her gentle mannerisms, Otsuu is a pop star who sings about vulgar shit despite it not being very "becoming" for a young lady, Sa-chan is tough but she proudly displays being a sub every chance she gets, she LIKES being treated as less by a man... Shit, I gotta give this show props for at least giving her that choice.

I dunno, I thought the Kyuubei arc was pretty amazing. I think her being able to cry had nothing to do with weakness. She grew up totally abused and was probably told she couldnt cry, so here comes her chance to finally be strong enough to break the mold she was imprisoned in. She didnt have a choice in it all her life, and then here comes Otae, and you know, gives her the ability to actually choose her emotion at the time. To me it didnt imply that females were supposed to be passive and weak, but
rather that being a male sounds like an emotional prison where you have to keep everything bottled up.

about her making her change teams or whatever in the goukan episode, it was about getting her in touch with her feminine side, at least just a tiiiiny bit. It started all because the Yorozuya thought she was thinking about a sex change. Which was of course, a dumb unfounded rumor. Did you forget that Yagyuu also flips out violently at the touch of a man? I mean, its not practical to live like that either you know, they were just trying to get her to try different thing out now that she was free of her family's rules, before going to get a dick.

I think you explained it better than I could. It's not that Kyuubi didn't want to be female, but rather that she was raised as a male. This includes thinking, acting and feeling like a male.

Gender roles in Japan are still very ridged and not as progressive as the West. It's a miracle something as popular as Gintama even addressed this at all. The whole gokon thing was more or less the result of a misunderstanding from what I gather, been awhile since I've watched those episodes.

Sa-chan is tough but she proudly displays being a sub every chance she gets, she LIKES being treated as less by a man... Shit, I gotta give this show props for at least giving her that choice.

This is why I love that character so much. And you notice Sa-chan only acts like that with Gintoki. She's rather aggressive toward everyone else. All the females in this series take whatever stereotypical shounen female trait they can find and subvert it as hard as possible.

I haven't seen that far, but your secret is a bit confusing to me. Male-bodied female wants to be seen as female, is seen as female finally...and is treated according to female standards.

That sounds pretty accepting to me, strange female emotion standards aside. Unless it was the sexism that was the entire issue rather than the trans angle.

Or perhaps I'm misunderstanding what's going on here.

The situation with that character is different. Kyubei is physically female, but was raised as a boy and as a result is sort of messed up. And seems to think a lot of the time that she ought to become a male. I'm not even 100% on remembering what she wants her sex and gender to be. Hopefully someone else can explain it better.

Yep, the secret was kind of confusing for those who haven't gotten that far. It's like this:

Female bodied female (I think she saw herself as a girl in the flashback, but people are free to say otherwise as I'm not completely sure) is raised as a male due to her crazy family. She then seems to think of herself (himself?) as a male, and is treated by society as such until she is torn from these binds and is free to be a female if she so wishes to. She is then encouraged to act in a feminine fashion.

Honestly, I'm not really sure if Kyuubei thinks of herself as a male or a female by the end of the arc. She seems to be comfortable dwelling in a space between the two genders. I'd probably call her genderqueer more than anything else.

Aaaaah ok, that makes a bit more sense then. The wording confused me quite a bit.

She probably wants to not care about gender anymore, if we think everything that happened in the two year episode was somehow related with what each of them desires.

You are, a tiny bit. The character IS a woman, but was groomed as the male heir to the school. Occasionally she wants to try to be more feminine but for the most part is comfortable as she is - but when the cast decides to try to HELP her be more feminine they do it in ridiculous, over-the-top ways. As the cast in Gintama is wont to do.

Thanks, that's the most accurate description so far.

Yeah, that makes it seem more like standard Gintama fare then, since the crew seems to go over the top with everything they do.

It helps to realize that Gintama is the Family Guy of Japan.

Uh...no. If anything it's the South Park of Japan.

Welcome to the wonderful and frustrating world of Japanese gender issues. It's always ham-fisted and far too naively presented when they do this stuff - the way I describe it is two steps forward, one step back. Yes, Gintama is touching these issues, which is cool, but it's touching upon them in such a clumsy way full of the misunderstandings the Japanese have about actual gender dysphoria and gender issues and in the end only serves to reinforce these stereotypes. It almost always ends with someone conforming to a gender role and being content that they have learned how to be happy as their born gender with some sort of half-assed explanation like 'I was scared to be who I really was so I hid from it'. I was basically just waiting for this to begin happening in this as well.

Occasionally this trope ends with them conforming incredibly strongly to the other side and being happy to finally live fully as the other gender, though that last one happens a LOT less. But there's definitely no grey area in-between and in the end gender stereotypes are rigidly reinforced.

It almost always ends with someone conforming to a gender role and being content that they have learned how to be happy as their born gender with some sort of half-assed explanation like 'I was scared to be who I really was so I hid from it'.

Except that that wasn't what happened in Gintama. Most of the time, Kyuubei still dresses like a man. She wears women's clothes when the occassion calls for it (swim-suit, when she's doing something girly with Otae, when Gintama's crazy plot demands it for the lulz etc.) and that's what makes her happy: that she can finally choose to be girly when she wants to.

I can't help but grit my teeth a bit at the attitude towards Japan (and the implication that the West is ~so much more enlightened~) presented in this comment, because IMO Japan is pretty progressive on that tack, and they in fact see themselves as being more progressive than America. Name one famous American celebrity who is a transsexual. Having trouble? Here's a Japanese one (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ai_Haruna).

Forgive me if I'm jumping on you for this/making assumptions, but I am so sick of people feeling like they can point fingers at Japan (or really any Asian country, though Japan seems to be a common target here because of anime fans or whatnot) while simultaneously ignoring their own culture's flaws. So sick of people who haven't even been to Japan (making another assumption here, sorry, but other people do this) complaining about Japanese culture.

[ SECRET POST #1620 ]

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(not op)

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Not the OP

+1

Re: Not the OP

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