fandomsecrets | [ SECRET POST #1626 ]

⌈ Secret Post #1626 ⌋

Warning: Some secrets are NOT worksafe and may contain SPOILERS.

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Notes:

Secrets Left to Post: 03 pages, 53 secrets from Secret Submission Post #232.
Secrets Not Posted: [ 1 2 3 - broken links ], [ 0 - not!secrets ], [ 1 2 3 - not!fandom ], [ 0 - too big ], [ 0 - hit/ship/spiration ], [ 0 - omgiknowthem ], [ 1 2 - take it to comments ], [ 0 - repeats ]
Current Secret Submissions Post: here.
Suggestions, comments and concerns should go here.

Flat | Top-Level Comments Only

the secret defends him.

oops. i should have read more closely.

No, it doesn't, really. The secret just points out that the Freudian Excuse people use for Draco being racist doesn't really work, because Sirius grew up in the same type of environment and didn't turn out that way. It doesn't say Sirius wasn't a bully, but just that he wasn't racist, which is true.

But it calls Draco a bully and a coward while ignoring that Sirius was a bully and reckless.

That's because the secret wasn't about Sirius, it was about Draco, and Draco IS a coward and a bully. The part that mentioned Sirius was SPECIFICALLY talking about Draco's racism, and how a lot of Draco fans write that off as, "Oh, he grew up in a racist household, he doesn't know any better, that's the only reason why he's racist!" when, no, that doesn't work, because Sirius grew up in an equally as racist household and didn't turn out that way.

So, again, the secret wasn't about Sirius, it was about Draco. Draco is racist, a coward, and a bully, not some snarky prince charming like fandom would like to believe, and he doesn't have any Freudian Excuses to get out of it.

The secret may have been about Draco but the OP compared him to Sirius. Yes, I agree that Sirius wasn't racist despite the household he grew up in unlike Draco but like Draco he was a bully, he was self-centered, and he could be a downright assehole again like Draco.

The secret wasn't entirely about the misunderstood woobie phenmonon (which I don't agree with either); the OP also said they couldn't understand why anyone would like Draco by cannon compliant reasons as well. While, since the OP compared Sirius to Draco in one way, I can bring up many cannon-compliant reasons why people wouldn't like Sirius.

Yes, and "Sirius" could have been just as easily substituted with "Andromeda" -- you know, Sirius' cousin? Mother of Tonks? The one who was disowned from the Black family because she married a Muggleborn? "Sirius" was just used because he's a well-known character. He had nothing to do with the secret whatsoever than to stand in as an example.

Furthermore, the OP never said that THEY liked Sirius. Again, he was just a bare placeholder example. And who cares if you can think up reasons why people wouldn't like Sirius? That still doesn't excuse Draco's behavior. You can't try to excuse the actions of one character by bashing another. It doesn't work that way.

(And for the record, I like them both. I just think that people jumping on the OP for "WELL SIRIUS WASN'T PERFECT EITHER" are missing the point of the example. I really do wish people would have used Andromeda, though, because she was also from the Black family and wasn't racist, and wouldn't provide people with a convenient scapegoat of a "counterargument.")

I'm not trying to imply that Sirius's flaws cancel out Draco's flaws. I'm also not trying to bash Sirius (I love his character; he's one of my favorites); I'm just trying to show that people can like flawed characters (which I'm obviously failing at).

I also think Sirius was used because he and Draco were better developed characters than Andromeda; Andromeda Tonks was only in a few scenes while both Sirius and Draco were more recurring characters.

(I apologize if I'm coming off as rude or bashing Sirius, that wasn't intentional. Maybe I just mis-read the OP about the secret because I thought they were partly saying that they couldn't understand why anyone would like Draco because of his flaws; I used Sirius because the OP mentioned Sirius in the rant. I hope that made sense; I'm afraid I babbled a bit towards the end)

Oh, of course people can like characters despite their flaws -- in fact, I like to think that most people like characters BECAUSE of their flaws. It's when you get characters without them like those in the Twilight series that you run into problems.

My point was just that the OP wasn't excusing Sirius (at least, that's not how I took it), yet was merely dismantling the Freudian Excuse that's often used for Draco. You have no idea how many times I've seen people say, "Well, he just doesn't know any better, it's because he was raised with racist parents, he could easily overcome that racism and hook up with Hermione!11!" It's prevalent. Extremely prevalent. And I took OP's use of Sirius to combat that, because Sirius (and the lesser used Andromeda as well) both showed that no, that doesn't matter, people can make their own decisions, and Draco chose to believe in racism.

Don't worry, I'm not actually mad or anything, just very blunt, haha. You have nothing to apologize for. =) Trust me, it takes a lot more than just a discussion on HP characters to rile me. But I'm sorry if I came off as rude, too. I don't mean to, I just often do. It's a bad tendency of mine. ^^;

I agree. Flawed characters are awesome.

I think I partly reacted the way I did because I've recently seen some Mauraders!fans who think they did no wrong (just as annoying as the Draco-In-Leather-Pants fans really) and just excuse everything they did while tearing down Draco and Snape. Probably unfair but sometimes I can't control my ability to go on rants.

It's all right, I'm the exact same, except in reverse. What really bugs me is that I really do find Snape to be an interesting character, but the Snapefen drive me so insane that I find myself bashing him sometimes just to try and shoot them down. >< It's awful of me, but sometimes I can't help it.

He wasn't as openly racist anyway.

If by "not as openly racist" you mean "we never once saw him being racist in the books, he treated Muggleborns, half-bloods, and purebloods with the same amount of respect, and, in fact, was best/great friends with a werewolf (Remus) and Muggleborn (Lily, and later treated Hermione with the same respect and kindness he gave Ron and Harry, as well), then yes, you're right. He was only about as racist as everyone else in the world.

since when are Muggleborn, half-blood, purebloods... a new race? The only new race I see here is werewolf because you are not from a different race simply because you were born in a different place.

The word "racism" used in this secret and (often) used in HP discussion refers to parentage, because Draco Malfoy -- and others like him in the HP universe -- use derogatory slurs and discriminate against those with different parentage much like people in our world discriminate against people because of their race. I.e., calling muggleborns "mudbloods," killing them and making shows out of it (like lynching in America's history), etc.

I mean, that should be obvious, but I'll give you the benefit of the doubt and explain anyway.

Pretty much.

[ SECRET POST #1626 ]

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