[ SECRET POST #1714 ]

[case]

⌈ Secret Post #1714 ⌋


Warning: Some secrets are NOT worksafe and may contain SPOILERS.


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Notes:

Secrets Left to Post: 09 pages, 201 secrets from Secret Submission Post #245.
Secrets Not Posted: [ 0 - broken links ], [ 1 - not!secrets ], [ 1 - not!fandom ], [ 0 - too big ], [ 0 - hit/ship/spiration ], [ 0 - omgiknowthem ], [ 0 - take it to comments ], [ 0 - repeats ]
Current Secret Submissions Post: here.
Suggestions, comments and concerns should go here.

Comments

[fscom.livejournal.com]

41. http://img199.imageshack.us/img199/517/image5cg.png

[captvisionloss.livejournal.com]

I'll give you concrit. For reals. Well, as much as I can, anyway, because I can't even guarantee I'll know what you write for.

[copper-dimes.livejournal.com]

What's your fandom? I don't particularly mind giving concrit, but I don't know how much I can give you if I don't know the source material.

[snarechan.livejournal.com]

Aw, don't give up. :c What you do is a really nice thing and who knows how many authors might have improved because of your advice!

Concrit is hard to give and I'm guilty of not offering it often. It can be scary pointing out things to another person - I worry about being wrong or upsetting someone needlessly.

Glad to see there are some nice people here offering you help! Though have you tried asking specifically for concrit from friends or fandom acquaintances or betas? They might feel comfortable enough to point out weaknesses in your work. I know if a friend asked I'd be honest; the last thing I'd want is for someone I care for to put out work that has grammar mistakes, plot holes, etc.

[(Anonymous)]

What the hayl is 'concrit'?

[checkerbloom.livejournal.com]

constructive criticism.

[(Anonymous)]

Ta very much.

[checkerbloom.livejournal.com]

You're very welcome.

[(Anonymous)]

didn't you get the memo? fandom is for ego stroking and insincere asskissing, not genuinely helpful feedback.

[mokka-kahvi.livejournal.com]

Same goes for Deviantart. :V

[captain-loki.livejournal.com]

I feel the same. Although, I am not hugely read or anything...but still. It's frustrating to see pages of

'squee!' and other fluff, it's nice when you get a real discussion about something.

[van.livejournal.com]

On the flip side, I've had authors say "PLZ GIVE ME CONCRIT" and so I've spent hours of my time reading and editing and concriting works that I loved and wanted to see improved, only to get no reply, or rants in return. I can be a somewhat hard "beta" but if we/the POV character knows the other guy's name, there's basically no reason to use, for example, "the Asian boy" instead of calling him "George." Epithets are not cool. No matter how many justification excuses the author comes up with makes that less so.

So, as a result, I often don't offer to give concrit any more because it ends up being a waste of my time and the author doesn't actually want concrit; s/he just wants praise. But hey, if you mean it and don't write absolute crap and we have remotely overlapping fandoms, I might give it a try.

[rabidsamfan.livejournal.com]

Well, I'll disagree about epithets. Sometimes I use epithets for stylistic reasons, and sometimes I use them to indicate the attitude of the p.o.v. character. (and occasionally, because I'm trying to make the word count right...) Those aren't excuses, they're reasons, and usually ones which the author has thought out beforehand. Your dislike of epithets under any and all circumstances is going to sound awfully ranty to any author who employs them the way I do. (Which may be why you get rants in return for your comments.)

I'll agree with you that concrit is hard. And frustrating, even if it's just a matter of diction, when the author doesn't respond.

[van.livejournal.com]

No, you're right. There are time when that'd work. A fic from Draco Malfoy's POV might very well say "the Mudblood" instead of Hermione or something. I just usually see it used in a "I don't want to say George" again way, and it makes no sense for the POV character to be thinking about her friend as "the brunette boy" or whatever. In one of my fandoms, they often said, "The curly haired rebel" which could refer to four different characters for instance. They used the professions of other characters for other epithets. That just comes off as a bad writing, and some sort of weird name-avoidance.

[rabidsamfan.livejournal.com]

*snerk* Well, imprecise epithets are problematic, I'll agree. (Although Blake or Tarrant frequently sorts itself out according to who's aboard right now, and Jenna and Calla... whoops, sorry, got distracted by your icon, didn't I?)

As for epithets like "brunette boy", I'd be jumping up and down and saying "brunet" not "brunette" in that instance and not worrying about the pov character depending on how close focus the view is. First person? The speaker better be comparing one boy with brown hair to another with blond hair. (And possibly fixating on their follicles.) But third person omniscient? I'm a lot more forgiving.

In Holmes fandom we get the "doctor" and the "detective" a lot, but neither really bothers me, seeing as ACD used epithets in descriptions of events fairly often. Do I want them used constantly? Only for effect. But now and then is no biggie if names are used the majority of the time.

And, since I write a lot of drabbles, there is much I'll forgive for the sake of word count.

Ah, well, we all have things that scrape against our nerves! (Breath vs. breathe? Hoard vs. horde? Watch my head spin!) But it's fun to debate.

[van.livejournal.com]

Don't forget Dayna. I guess we can have five curly haired rebels! It usualyl does clear itself up, but it's still annoying and frustrating. I can see Avon maybe thinking of Vila as "the thief" or something, but I can't see Blake thinking of Jenna as "the pilot" or whatever. It just doesn't make sense. It's a literary device that, IMO, rarely does. It's one thing if you are imitating an author who used them (Conan Doyle, who was definitely writing in a different era that had different rules), or else for effect or something, but generally it's just jarring. Fortunately most people pick up on it when it's pointed out and make an effort to change it, but there are always those who think just because the Japanese translates into "dolphin" that character should always be called "the Dolphin" or whatever nonsense.

I don't think breath vs breathe or hoard vs. horde is something you can debate. I think you can probably debate some epithets, but sometimes the wrong word is wrong XD

[rabidsamfan.livejournal.com]

That's where I disagree, again. I can easily see Blake thinking of Jenna in terms of her function. After all, I frequently think of "my boss" and "the branch librarian" and "the lady with the blond hair" (all one and the same person, by the way) when I'm working, or for that matter indicating to someone who it is they should speak to. In the first instance the epithet describes our relationship, in the second, her function, and in the third, it differentiates her from the other people who might be sitting at the front desk at any given time.

Don't forget Gan. That's six! (No wonder Avon and Vila always ended up being thrown together.)

[van.livejournal.com]

It would really depend for me. I can see Blake think. "We have to get outof here quickly, and that was a job for the pilot." I don't see him thinking, in Blane POV fic, "How are you holding up?" the pilot asked. But perhaps that is just personal preference. Needless to say, "the curly haired rebel" is basically everyone but Avon, Vila and Soolin. (Now I want fic where they all get perms...)

I doubt that's why Avon and Vila are thrown together, but itis a funny thought!

[(Anonymous)]

I was actually just talking about this on /cgl/ the other day, well...in terms of art work. I find it almost impossible for me to get crit these days. I have to post through several different sites in order to just get one :(

It confuses me, too, because before 2009 I could get concrit easily! Even on /ic/...now it's all about being dicks to people who want crit and help. I always get the same responses, which is something like, "Just stop drawing and read Loomis." Or "learn2anatomy!" Literally. Every. Time.

Before 2009, people actually /helped/ me and gave me feed back other than just telling me to go read books. I don't get it, and it is very frustrating. One of the most helpful pieces advice I EVER got that completely changed my artwork for the better was a simple sentence from some anon on /ic/ in '09: Think of the human body being built out of sacks of potatoes.

[dragonimp.livejournal.com]

I must be making secrets in my sleep.

Seriously though, I've found that most people in fandom aren't too keen on concrit. It takes extra time and a lot of thought, for one thing, and most people are either reading on the fly or are reading because they want to zone out with something mindless. For another, there are sadly many people who react badly to concrit, including those who say they want it but then get upset when they receive it. I am very reluctant to leave it because of a few past experiences, even though I love getting it myself. I'm happy to have someone tear into my work, but I seem to be in the minority on that.

[(Anonymous)]

I love giving concrit but always keep it all to myself if I suspect the recipient can't take concrit well. Some people declare in blinking cruise control size 100 font that they want concrit. But once they get what they asked for, they get butthurt and threaten to stop writing/drawing forever if the "bullying" doesn't stop, which then turns everyone's guns on the poor person who was only sacrificing their own time to do what was asked by their favorite author or artist. Never again.

[(Anonymous)]

To be fair, a lot of people who ask for concrit still throw a hissy fit whenever they get it, so a lot of people are too scared to give it even when it's requested.

Doesn't make it right, of course. It's just a case of some jerks ruining it for everyone else.

[strangeallure.livejournal.com]

First off, I think it's great you're giving other people concrit - it takes time and effort, and I'm sure many appreciate it.

OTOH, I used to give concrit, too (couched in praise to make clear these were just small issues I saw), and my experience was that some people appreciated it, but others (who had specifically asked for concrit, too) reacted sullen or didn't react at all (as in: my comment was the only one left unanswered). So these days, I just give a few quick words of praise since I've come to believe that for a lot of people, fandom is a place they go to get affirmation, not critique.

Even with people I beta'ed for, I sometimes got the feeling that, "please give concrit and be thorough" really means, "I want you to tell me that you read this with a very critical eye and still completely loved it". I also came to believe that that's okay. People want their fandom experience to be a happy one.

Anyway, I hope you find a good beta, who will be honest, helpful and encouraging.

[rabidsamfan.livejournal.com]

You're probably better off looking for a good beta, who has been tasked with providing concrit, than hoping someone will pop up off the internet.

Personally, I will offer concrit on spelling and misused words, but little else, and then only on stories I think are worth the effort of fixing. So either you're a good speller and have a functional vocabulary or your stories aren't worth the effort. Your choice! (Me, I'd go with the former, and keep my ego happy.)