Case (![[personal profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/silk/identity/user.png)
case) wrote in ![[community profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/silk/identity/community.png)
fandomsecrets2011-09-24 03:43 pm
case) wrote in fandomsecrets2011-09-24 03:43 pm
[ SECRET POST #1726 ]
Warning: Some secrets are NOT worksafe and may contain SPOILERS.
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Notes:
Secrets Left to Post: 10 pages, 240 secrets from Secret Submission Post #247.
Secrets Not Posted: [ 0 - broken links ], [ 1 - not!secrets ], [ 0 - not!fandom ], [ 1 - too big ], [ 0 - hit/ship/spiration ], [ 0 - omgiknowthem ], [ 0 - take it to comments ], [ 1 - repeats ]
Current Secret Submissions Post: here.
Suggestions, comments and concerns should go here.
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(Anonymous) 2011-09-24 10:25 pm (UTC)(link)no subject
http://ethrosdemon.livejournal.com/423655.html
http://writ.corporate.findlaw.com/hilden/20080121.html
http://ethrosdemon.livejournal.com/425046.html
http://dumas1.livejournal.com/8952.html
http://ira-gladkova.dreamwidth.org/540.html
And AO3/OFTW's "what we believe" page is just so side-eye worthy: http://transformativeworks.org/about/believe
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(Anonymous) 2011-09-24 10:41 pm (UTC)(link)no subject
Also, uh, fanwanks are a legitimate thing that need preserving? What, are they like national parks or whales?
(I just instinctively hate AO3 because it's butt-ugly. I'm really shallow.)
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And yeah, the whole thing is just ... ridiculous.
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Not saying I agree with the current wording, but it's an incredibly thin line they're trying to walk. Not being exclusionary is fiercely important for fandom. On the other hand, the fact that fandom history is so full of female creators, and safe spaces for woman is one of the most radical things about the culture.
It is worth noting that fandom offers unique spaces to discuss popular culture without a constant bombardment by misogyny. That has less to do with conscious effort and more to do with the simple fact that in those arenas the gender-balance skews female.
Finding a way of acknowledging that is difficult. Especially in a world where anything which sounds remotely "reverse sexist" is going to get you torn apart without a second's pause for the benefit of the doubt.
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Not being exclusionary is fiercely important for fandom. On the other hand, the fact that fandom history is so full of female creators, and safe spaces for woman is one of the most radical things about the culture.
I love the inclusion that comes with being in fandom. It's part of the reason I was able to come to terms with being trans. But acknowledging that also comes with some male privilege in tow. So if some place is labelled as a safe place for women, I'm suddenly uncertain if it'd be a good or welcome place to put my fic up. And if it isn't a welcome place for me as a guy, that's fine- it's not for me, it's for women. But the addition of 'we are inclusive of any gender' feels like trying to have it both ways, which makes me feel... odd. I'm not sure how to put it into words, really.
(Also I love being able to discuss, critique, and listen to others' opinions on misogyny in the media through fandom, honestly. There's so few places to actually get your ideas heard and taken seriously, or to hear others saying things that AREN'T MISOGYNISTIC for a change. I remember once trying to talk to someone IRL about how the treatment of women in The Boat That Rocked was problematic, and they could not understand what I was on about. 'What, that they weren't allowed to be on the boat?' was about as coherent as the discussion out of them got.)
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(Anonymous) 2011-10-01 12:12 am (UTC)(link)And this is how I feel every time I open a college textbook with the intro saying, "I know it's sexist to use "he" to refer to an abstract third person, but for no discernable reason, I have decided to do it anyway. This will not offend you." And about one hundred other times every day of my life as a woman.
Take this as an opportunity to understand about one percent of what it's like not have male privilege. Even if you were not welcome in the AO3 - or even in the whole of fandom, which the text is nowhere near implying, that's just me being hypothetical here - you will still always have the rest of the world.
From your comment, I gather you understand this already, at least on an intellectual level, but I got this strong vibe of "it's making me, a man, feel uncomfortable, and/so that's bad," and that, I think, is really missing the point.
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(Anonymous) 2011-10-01 12:23 am (UTC)(link)tl;dr :)
I do know a bit of what it's like to have that abstract third person bugging me- it's part of why I had such a huge difficulty in my high school with learning other languages (Spanish and Japanese), because of the constant bombardment of gender-signifiers for nouns and for myself. Even the behavioral signifiers for male and female are awful- I had to curtsy in Japanese class in such a way that was highly uncomfortable for me, though no one else seemed to be bothered.
I know that AO3 isn't actually saying I'm unwelcome- having had some time to think about it since my original comment, I think that AO3 bringing up the gender of its users just made me instinctively nervous. I still have to tick off those little boxes with an F next to it for my bills, and when I apply for jobs, and file my taxes, and go to the gynaecologist for a checkup. Does a fic hosting site, something I'd frequent in my spare time, really need to bring up gender too?
I'm still trying to grapple with this abstract male privilege I've suddenly got because I'm internally male. I'm pre-everything, and kind of unmasculine in my behaviors, so in my everyday experiences of the world, I'm still perceived as that freaky girl who dresses in men's clothing. I have to face quite a lot of misogyny in my day-to-day life, so I know a bit of what it's like, and try to take care to not pass it on to other women as a male myself. It's good practice, confronting that privilege now, for when I pass better and am treated as a guy by others- and thus fully receiving that male privilege.
I'm sorry I gave you that vibe. It really wasn't so much 'so that's bad' as 'i am anxious and confused by this and do not know what to do/say'.
no subject
(Anonymous) 2011-09-24 10:41 pm (UTC)(link)no subject
(Anonymous) 2011-09-25 12:31 am (UTC)(link)