Case (![[personal profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/silk/identity/user.png)
case) wrote in ![[community profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/silk/identity/community.png)
fandomsecrets2011-10-15 03:40 pm
case) wrote in fandomsecrets2011-10-15 03:40 pm
[ SECRET POST #1747 ]
Warning: Some secrets are NOT worksafe and may contain SPOILERS.
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Notes:
Secrets Left to Post: 13 pages, 316 secrets from Secret Submission Post #250.
Secrets Not Posted: [ 1 - broken links ], [ 1 2 - not!secrets ], [ 1 2 - not!fandom ], [ 1 2 - too big ], [ 1 2 3 - repeats ]
Current Secret Submissions Post: here.
Suggestions, comments and concerns should go here.
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(Anonymous) 2011-10-16 09:22 am (UTC)(link)Being American doesn't make you stupid, but it means that you're part of a country that keeps spouting its self-aggrandizing, patriotic rhetoric of exceptionalism and has the cultural power to diffuse that rhetoric all over the world aaand meanwhile keeps fucking over the rest of the world with its imperialistic policies so yeah - it's particularly annoying.
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If you can't see the good in America, that's too bad. To act as if there's nothing to be proud of is ridiculous. Yeah there's a lot NOT to be proud of, but there's effing nothing wrong with being proud of the good things and there's nothing wrong with being proud of and striving for an ideal.
There's things to be proud of in every country, and America is NOT an exception. Far from it! Because people from this nation have done a huge amount of AMAZING things in a relatively short period of time. And if you think it is an exception, and if you think Americans are any less worthy of showing patriotism, you're deluding yourself and probably idealizing other nations and cultures (which is pretty common, tbh).
Frankly acting like you are is, yes, the very opposite of nationalism, but is really just as BAD as nationalism. Turning up your nose at anyone who shows pride in their own country is counterproductive, and it will get you nowhere. Because really? It's national pride that causes revolutions, causes people to fight for change, etc. It's seeing the good in a nation and striving for it. Do you think that most of the people on Wall Street right now are there because they hate America and patriotism? No, they're there because they believe in some level in the country, have passion for it, and think that because of that, their voice might be able to make a difference. Extreme patriotism is certainly bad and has done bad, bad things, but a healthy level of patriotism changes the world for the better and has done so throughout history. I'm sorry if you can't see that. I fight for things to get better in this country because I love it, and I know that we're capable of being better. I fight for it partly because I'm patriotic. Things don't get better through cynicism.
And there's a huge difference between nationalism and some mild patriotism ffs. Like Captain America shouldn't even have been a problem, because in no way is he nationalistic.
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(Anonymous) 2011-10-16 10:28 pm (UTC)(link)Way to misunderstand.
Patriotism exists all over the world and existed before America did. I think being proud of one's country only because it's one's country is stupid, whether it's the US, the UK, Bolivia or Thailand or wherever.
But when people in Bolivia or Thailand or wherever are beating their chest, saying that their country is the best ever most people don't hear about it. When the US does, the whole world gets to know how great the US is, how strong and free and special - thanks, Hollywood, Internet, global economic and cultural domination. Captain America, in film theatres around the globe, to go with the real US soldiers around the globe.
And yeah, there are things to be proud of in every country, but why does it have to be about countries? Why should people be proud of what occurred in their country solely because they happened to be born there?
Does OWS have to be about belief in America, not justice or equality or...? Especially because that belief, that whole rhetoric of America as an exceptional, young country (possibly-chosen-by-God) defender of freedom, etc. was used to defend colonial, imperial expansion.
I can understand a sort of patriotic pride in countries that have been oppressed recently, the US, or any of the other former imperialistic world powers, doesn't have that excuse.
Basically, I think it's about American privilege. American + Western Europe privilege, to be fair, except US is much more dominant at the moment.