If you want to believe I'm a misogynist, that's fine. But you don't know me. And I don't have to prove or defend myself to you.
For the record, I think I generally do like you, as you seem to be eloquent and well-spoken, and while I see your defensiveness as excessive and somewhat hostile, I do know that you have reason to feel this way and I respect that.
we've got calling someone a "girl," "girly," "womanlike," "lady," "bitch," "cunt," "pussy," and on and on and on.
Yes, bitch and cunt and pussy are generally not ever seen as positive in any way. But I've got guy friends that would absolutely LOVE to be called girly, and I've got girl friends that would LOATHE being called manly. Those words in particular, I think, are less about the words themselves being negative and more about them being not what someone was aiming for in their appearance/behavior/etc. And generally the male equivalent does not carry the same weight, you're right. But that still doesn't make it okay. Misogyny started somewhere. It hasn't always been a problem. And while misandry is mostly a non-issue (though again, I feel that it does exist, though it is unquestionably barely a fraction of the problem that misogyny is), treating men like dirt just because there's no history to amplify the effect will, in fact, be the foundation that it currently lacks in being an act of sexism, by your definition.
And seriously, the day I take a man seriously when he gets up and starts talking about how feminists behave and how feminists should conduct themselves is the day I give up any and all respect for myself as a feminist.
How about when people get up and point out when someone's behavior is excessive and hurtful? Should it necessarily matter that someone is a feminist if their words are hurtful? Should it matter if the person being insulted is male?
I mean, really, I'm not trying to say that deleted-account is right. But it does bother me when some people - not you, from my limited view here, but some people - use causes such as feminism to act however they want and disregard the consequences because their demographic has been mistreated in the past. It bothers me when the name of equality is used to torment and attack perfectly nice people; that just because someone happens to be part of the "privileged" majority, they don't get any voice, even in defending their own words or actions.
It also bothers me that these conversations cannot, physically CANNOT, take place without the words "privilege" and "ignorance" showing up. The words have been used and abused by so many people that they've begun to lose all meaning. Even when used correctly, they've begun to feel like a meme gone wrong...
Re: Are there any men watching?
For the record, I think I generally do like you, as you seem to be eloquent and well-spoken, and while I see your defensiveness as excessive and somewhat hostile, I do know that you have reason to feel this way and I respect that.
we've got calling someone a "girl," "girly," "womanlike," "lady," "bitch," "cunt," "pussy," and on and on and on.
Yes, bitch and cunt and pussy are generally not ever seen as positive in any way. But I've got guy friends that would absolutely LOVE to be called girly, and I've got girl friends that would LOATHE being called manly. Those words in particular, I think, are less about the words themselves being negative and more about them being not what someone was aiming for in their appearance/behavior/etc. And generally the male equivalent does not carry the same weight, you're right. But that still doesn't make it okay. Misogyny started somewhere. It hasn't always been a problem. And while misandry is mostly a non-issue (though again, I feel that it does exist, though it is unquestionably barely a fraction of the problem that misogyny is), treating men like dirt just because there's no history to amplify the effect will, in fact, be the foundation that it currently lacks in being an act of sexism, by your definition.
And seriously, the day I take a man seriously when he gets up and starts talking about how feminists behave and how feminists should conduct themselves is the day I give up any and all respect for myself as a feminist.
How about when people get up and point out when someone's behavior is excessive and hurtful? Should it necessarily matter that someone is a feminist if their words are hurtful? Should it matter if the person being insulted is male?
I mean, really, I'm not trying to say that deleted-account is right. But it does bother me when some people - not you, from my limited view here, but some people - use causes such as feminism to act however they want and disregard the consequences because their demographic has been mistreated in the past. It bothers me when the name of equality is used to torment and attack perfectly nice people; that just because someone happens to be part of the "privileged" majority, they don't get any voice, even in defending their own words or actions.
It also bothers me that these conversations cannot, physically CANNOT, take place without the words "privilege" and "ignorance" showing up. The words have been used and abused by so many people that they've begun to lose all meaning. Even when used correctly, they've begun to feel like a meme gone wrong...