[ SECRET POST #1755 ]

[case]

⌈ Secret Post #1755 ⌋


Warning: Some secrets are NOT worksafe and may contain SPOILERS.


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Notes:

Secrets Left to Post: 09 pages, 206 secrets from Secret Submission Post #251.
Secrets Not Posted: [ 1 - broken links ], [ 1 - not!secrets ], [ 1 2 - not!fandom ], [ 0 - too big ], [ 1 - repeats ]
Current Secret Submissions Post: here.
Suggestions, comments and concerns should go here.

Comments

[(Anonymous)]

I realize that civility on the internet is pretty scarce, but I often find myself wondering: do you talk like this in person? Would you say this to someone's face?

Not even just you--I mean everyone in this whole damn thread who clutters their (perhaps otherwise insightful) commentary with lazy insults and patronizing slang. I'm genuinely curious. I've wondered this for a long time--how many people actually talk like this in person?

[(Anonymous)]

plenty of men are perfectly comfortable with putting 'feminazi bitches' in their place by calling them all sorts of misogynist terms and basically being condescending hateful dicks, like this guy is doing.

however, i think davidshephard is one of those notorious internet tough guys that spends all his time on the internet trying to convince himself of his badassitude and superiority to women. which is better than acting that way in real life, but not by much.

[veronica-rich.livejournal.com]

Well, I can definitely say that if some douchebag says "you're fat, so you must hate men" or "you hate men, you sound fat" within my hearing in real life, I sure do-diddly respond the same way with my voice that I do in typing on here to the same impetus. I'm no saint, and I'm not about to be walked on.

[(Anonymous)]

Oh, naturally. And I don't blame you for being rightfully indignant.

Hm, I'm having trouble phrasing my question here exactly, but what I'm really curious about is if anyone actually gets into these initially somewhat civil arguments and end up resorting to the "your fat... etc" statements (and variants) and to the "you must be a neckbeard poor bb lol you're probs mad 'cause you never got laid" retorts (I'm pretty sure no one actually said this, but I am referring to this sort of statement).

I don't know. I just get so annoyed when I hear people rightly defending women/feminism, or whatever subject, and sounding unbelievably moronic while doing so because they're resorting to exactly the same derailing and ad hominem tactics.

[veronica-rich.livejournal.com]

In person, I try to be civilized, but most of the people I deal with try to remain civilized too, so there you go. Online, it depends on the day - sometimes I get called a name and my reaction is simply a polite form of "bitch please" and don't retaliate in kind; other days, some idiot says something inflammatory and, well, I reply in kind.

Actually, I kind of think of FS and Fandom Wank (and a lot of other online places) as a way for people to vent the things they can't say IRL, or just generally vent. 3/4 of the things shouldn't be taken personally or replied to, probably, but they are. Ah well, life is such.

[(Anonymous)]

That makes sense, thanks for clearing that up.

[(Anonymous)]

So we can't call misogynist assholes misogynist assholes now? We shouldn't call them out for making stupid comparisons and being ignorant and offensive, because that's just the same as pulling out misogynist insults and being a sexist jerk?

Oh, okay.

[(Anonymous)]

I'm not really sure where you got that from, but no, that is not at all what I was suggesting.

Initially this guy had an argument. Initially the other commenters had rebuttals, some of which involved calling him on his misogyny. This is not what I take issue with. I'm saying that I am annoyed when the arguments devolve because of logical fallacies and turn into an exchange of petty insults that have absolutely nothing to do with calling anyone out on misogyny at all.

[(Anonymous)]

PS. Try typing Tone Argument into google, maybe that will help you understand what you're doing wrong here.

[(Anonymous)]

I'm familiar with the tone argument, and I really wish people would stop accusing anyone who dislikes pointless inflammatory derailment of promoting it. I thought I had made myself clear, but I'll rephrase: I have no qualms about people getting rightfully angry about misogyny, I'm simply irritated by the pervasiveness of logical fallacies such as ad hominem. People have every right to get angry--it's a personal issue after all. I'm just tired of seeing threads which initially have arguments derail into insults and picking on people's grammar or perceived demographic (i.e. basement dwellers, children, what-have-you).

I didn't want to do this, but I think this in particular illustrates what I am trying to get at here:
http://fandomsecrets.livejournal.com/778156.html?thread=491504300#t491504300

[(Anonymous)]

Whoops, I should specify: I am merely referring to the very first exchange, not the exchanges with other users below.

[(Anonymous)]

So... your problem with that comment is not that he's being a sexist, dismissive misogynist, but that he fell back on logical fallacies and ad hominem attacks and thus weakened his argument? And you think calling a woman a bitch and telling her to shut the fuck up and let the grownups (ie men) talk is just like people being angry and pointing out that someone's using the tone argument when others want them to just calm down and ~be reasonable~ when someone says something offensive?


... okay...?

[(Anonymous)]

Let me ask you something: why are you so insistent in believing it can't be both?

Yes, my problem lies in his logical fallacies and ad hominem attacks. And, yes, my problem also lies in his misogyny. These are not mutually exclusive, and in fact, my point is that in his case they are necessarily connected. His being a sexist, dismissive misogynist is that ad hominem.