Case (![[personal profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/silk/identity/user.png)
case) wrote in ![[community profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/silk/identity/community.png)
fandomsecrets2011-10-29 02:12 pm
case) wrote in fandomsecrets2011-10-29 02:12 pm
[ SECRET POST #1761 ]
Warning: Some secrets are NOT worksafe and may contain SPOILERS.
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Notes:
Early because there's a snowstorm here, not sure if power will stay on. Better early than late!
Secrets Left to Post: 12 pages, 300 secrets from Secret Submission Post #252.
Secrets Not Posted: [ 1 - broken links ], [ 0 - not!secrets ], [ 0 - not!fandom ], [ 1 - too big ], [ 1 2 - hit/ship/spiration ], [ 0 - omgiknowthem ], [ 0 - take it to comments ], [ 0 - repeats ]
Current Secret Submissions Post: here.
Suggestions, comments and concerns should go here.
Re: question (da)
(Anonymous) 2011-10-30 02:18 pm (UTC)(link)Two different things.
The five years was not how long the cure would take to work; it was the way that she would pay Rossum back for the costs of the cure. (Just assume I'm putting in air-quotes as necessary, to reflect what the characters believe that isn't true.)
The cure was that they were giving her a functioning mind, to replace what seemed to be a hopelessly dysfunctional mind that could not be cured any other way.
Even discounting the fact that, as they discovered, their "cure" wasn't Priya's only hope to someday be mentally well, it's still hella morally questionable on all sorts of levels. But, I would argue, that's the point - and it's not necessarily a question with an easy answer. Like someone said earlier in the thread, if someone is actively refusing medication because they're too delusional to understand their choices, does that mean you shrug and say, "Hey! I'll leave them to suffer!" If there is any case where you say, "No; I believe in letting rational people make their own choices, but this person cannot do that, and someone else has to make those choices for them," then the question becomes when you believe that your overriding of their wishes is justified.
Re: question (da)
They weren't just overriding her wishes in order to make her better. They were using her for purposes unrelated to the cure - using her as a doll was not necessary to the cure.
The comparison would be if someone were to force medication on a non-compliant patient, for their own good, and then rented them out as a prostitute while they were drugged out, as "payment" for the cost of the medication.
Re: question (da)
(Anonymous) 2011-10-30 09:47 pm (UTC)(link)Well, I think there's a fine point that's being missed. Adele and Topher don't think it's okay to turn Priya into a Doll because she's schizophrenic, they think it's okay to turn Priya into a Doll because she's desperate. Just as they thought it was okay to take at least two people who should have been turned over to the criminal justice system and coerce them into becoming Dolls. Their reasoning in the case of Caroline/Echo and ... what's his face from the other episode (sorry, can't look up the name ATM) was "If they agree to it, even if they have no choice but to agree to it, it's okay." I'm sure their reasoning regarding Priya was "If a rational Priya had no other choices besides either becoming a Doll and serving us for five years as a Doll, or remaining hopelessly mentally ill for the rest of her life, she'd surely choose becoming a Doll! Therefore it's okay for us to make that choice for her, the way she would have made it."
Their reasoning is of course wrong, just as it was wrong for them to say "Hey, it's okay for us to make you a slave for us for five years ... as long as you prefer that to being turned over to the justice system." But it's not as self-obviously wrong a chain of reasoning as "Hey, she's a schizophrenic! Let's rape her!" and that's the point I want to make. There were at least two other people who willingly did consent to becoming Dolls as a cure for emotional/mental health issues, Mellie and Victor; Adele and Topher weren't irrational to believe that Priya would have been another, had she been capable of making the choice for herself.
Re: question (da)
I should note that I did not say they thought "Hey, she's a schizophrenic! Let's rape her!" - they thought "she's a schizophrenic, it's okay if she gets raped / it's not actually rape" - or more to the point, didn't think of it terms of rape at all, until they discovered she wasn't a schizophrenic.
That they may have assumed consent in no way makes what they did any better. Assuming consent is still rape. And yes, it's a similar kind of wrong as the one they did Caroline, except that Caroline still had a choice (I'm not saying that makes it okay, just not as bad as Priya's case). She was not entirely powerless. She was not part of a group with a long history of being victimized by other people's ideas of "cures", either.