Case (![[personal profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/silk/identity/user.png)
case) wrote in ![[community profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/silk/identity/community.png)
fandomsecrets2011-10-31 06:56 pm
case) wrote in fandomsecrets2011-10-31 06:56 pm
[ SECRET POST #1763 ]
⌈ Secret Post #1763 ⌋
Warning: Some secrets are NOT worksafe and may contain SPOILERS.
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Notes:
Somebody's been spamming the submissions post with old secrets, apparently (for what actual purpose, I'm not sure). Just give me a heads up and I'll take the repeats down.
Secrets Left to Post: 08 pages, 200 secrets from Secret Submission Post #252.
Secrets Not Posted: [ 0 - broken links ], [ 1 - not!secrets ], [ 1 - not!fandom ], [ 0 - too big ], [ 1 - omgiknowthem ], [ 1 2 - repeat ].
Current Secret Submissions Post: here.
Suggestions, comments, and concerns should go here.
no subject
I think Mary DOES show some spark, and I love that about her. In a society where women were expected to be sweet, meek and docile, Mary is headstrong and brash and speaks her mind. She's kind of a young Violet. When she told Branson to pipe down, it was the best thing ever. She keeps her emotions hidden behind a cold exterior, but she has a fire within her.
You do realize that money + good looks does not = happiness, right? Mary is trapped right now in a relationship with a man she knows to be ruthless and willingn to destroy her. But she can't get out of it without ruining her reputation and bringing scandal upon her family. How worse off other people are is completely irrelevant. Personally, I don't care that Mary isn't some benevolent angel saving the world. She DOES care when people she loves are worse off than her. She's a Slytherin. She's Narcissa Malfoy. Cold on the outside, but will do anything to protect the people she thinks of as "hers". And to me that is way more interesting to see in a protagonist than the typical idealistic one.
Are you seriously saying that Mary being forced to perform sexual acts she didn't quite understand and therefore couldn't consent to is Mary being selfish and expecting people to get her out of it? SERIOUSLY? Mary is a pragmatist, but she's ALSO a romantic, and Pamuk appealed to the romantic side of her. Mary was looking for a way out of her situation (much like Sybil is with Branson) and met this romantic stranger. So she flirted with him and got a bit swept away by him, but then he bullied himself into her room. Mary was sheltered from the facts of life (as were all women at the time). She didn't really know what she was getting into and Pamuk took advantage of that and of her. She's clearly unsure and confused and doesn't know what she is doing. And yet in the eyes of society she is the one at fault and she is the one who gets all of the consequences. I don't understand how this is being selfish and expecting other people to fix the mistakes for her. It wasn't a "mistake". She was taken advantage of.
And yes, this is all opinion. Opinions are fine and dandy, but without evidence, they're just opinions. I don't think my opinions are fact, but I also don't see you backing up your opinions with a lot of concrete examples. You're entitled to your opinions, but you said you didn't understand how anyone could love Lady Mary, and I was trying to show you the many reasons why I (and many other people) love her.
no subject
You see the irony in this response, right? Right? Reverse the names and you have my response to you.
Look, I appreciate the time you took to explain your opinion to me, which I did ask for, but it boils down to this: it's a piece of fiction and, as such, subjective. I dislike Lady Mary. It's not a personal insult to you. I find her character rather unappealing and uninteresting and don't rate Michelle Dockery particularly highly as an actress, it seems like she has one roster of facial ticks and speaks either in monotone or a screech.
In the end, I don't quite care enough about Mary or Downton Abbey to have this argument. You clearly do and more power to you. You evidently have enough people who feel the same way, so I don't see why you're so aggressively making your point to me. You're right, I shouldn't have played the education card and I apologise. I'll admit my pride was somewhat wounded by your insinuation that my opinions and intelligence were in some way subpar because I didn't share your view and wanted an objective way of proving otherwise.
You have fun watching the show and enjoying flawed characters like Mary and Narcissa Malfoy (who I've never had much interest in either). I'll continue watching the show and enjoying flawed characters like Edith and Remus Lupin. No-one has to take offence here.
no subject
Michelle Dockery conveys a lot in her tone and expression. I think she's the best of the young actors on the show. I guess you don't see it, but I am really not understanding your criticism of her screeching? When has Mary EVER screeched?
I get that you don't care enough to continue the discussion so we can end it here. I'm not offended. I don't take fandom debates personally or seriously. I like stating my opinion and getting into discussion because it solidifies what I think which is why I decided to engage you. I tend to use pretty flippant tones in my internet debates (I blame ONTD for that) which is something you're not used to, apparently, because you seem like you were legitimately personally offended. So... sorry about that.
no subject
And I wouldn't care if you did. Because you're allowed to have a different opinion to me. Upthread you refer to Branson as "the literal worst" and a "jerk". I like him, though he has gotten really one-note and pushy of late. But I didn't post a ragey comment about how he was better than anyone you liked. Tbh, I'm surprised you replied to me at all.
"But I do find it weird that you dislike Mary for being an unlikable cow, and then go on to say that another character who has arguably done worse things is your favourite."
Yes, it's funny how this 'liking' things business works, isn't it? Almost like what we're drawn to is subjective and individual and not entirely based in reason. How odd.
Maybe I'm wrong on the screeching. She gives an impression of screechiness. Mea culpa, but the monotone and limited number of facial expressions stands. Re being personally offended - not really, just surprised. You seem like an intelligent, reasonable person quite capable of giving a lengthy defence of your opinion. I don't get why you suddenly needed to be quite so catty about it (like saying you'll "indulge" me by explaining your views, how blessed I am).
Fare thee well, Internet Stranger. This has been a singularly pointless moment in both of our lives, which I'm sure we'll look back on with total and utter indifference. I go back into lurkerdom reminding myself that this is why I hardly ever comment here any more.
no subject
Tbh, the main reason I replied to you was because I had just come across the Mary eye rolling gif and was looking for a place to use it. Also because you called her an "entitled, whiny bitch" and I think that is flat out wrong. If you just said you didn't like her, I probably wouldn't have cared.
I didn't think I was being catty. My initial reply was jokey in tone and I wasn't intending it to take it very far, but then you gave a lengthy reply, so I responded in kind. It's not that serious.
no subject
(Anonymous) 2011-11-03 09:51 pm (UTC)(link)