fandomsecrets | [ SECRET POST #1788 ]

⌈ Secret Post #1788 ⌋

Warning: Some secrets are NOT worksafe and may contain SPOILERS.

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[Star Trek: The Next Generation]

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[Avril Lavigne; Miho Fukuhara; Supercell]

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06. [repeat]

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[Doctor Who]

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12. [repeat]

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[Assassin's Creed]

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[Puss In Boots]

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[Parenthood]

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[Supernatural]

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[Mortal Kombat]

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[Greek Myths (Hermes), Allstate (Mayhem)]

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[ ----- SPOILERY SECRETS AHEAD ----- ]

22. [SPOILERS for something, OP did not specify]

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23. [SPOILERS for something, OP did not specify]

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24. [SPOILERS for modern warfare 3]

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25. [SPOILERS for Marble Hornets]

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26. [SPOILERS for Pandora Hearts]

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27. [SPOILERS for Dexter]

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28. [SPOILERS for Alien Nine Emulators ]

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29. [SPOILERS for Batman: Arkham City]

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[ ----- TRIGGERY SECRETS AHEAD ----- ]

30. [TRIGGER WARNING for pedophilia]

[Chrono Crusade]

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31. [TRIGGER WARNING for incest]

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32. [TRIGGER WARNING for rape]

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33. [TRIGGER WARNING for eating disorders]

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34. [TRIGGER WARNING for abuse]

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35. [TRIGGER WARNING for eating disorders]

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[House]

36. [TRIGGER WARNING for depression/suicide]

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Notes:

Secrets Left to Post: 00 pages, 000 secrets from Secret Submission Post #255.
Secrets Not Posted: [ 1 - broken links ], [ 1 - not!secrets ], [ 0 - not!fandom ], [ 1 2 - too big ], [ 1 - repeat ].
Current Secret Submissions Post: here.
Suggestions, comments, and concerns should go here.

Flat | Top-Level Comments Only

The portrait changed though. I mean, it changed when he became human, so I think it could change as he aged.

What? When did the portrait change? I'm quite sure I don't remember that, so you'll have to point it out to me if you can.

Anyway, I present to you the prologue, where he does not look like a child in neither the stain glass windows nor the portrait: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=__x8CYAVMbk (You could argue that he didn't rip the portrait until recently, but the rose is still closed in that scene.)

I just really have no idea where people are getting this stuff from. I guess it's just the little leftovers in the song lyrics from Howard Ashman (who actually did want the prince to be a child when cursed) and taking those too literally. But he really can't be any younger than a late teen in those flashbacks.

Sorry, if I'm a little long-winded on this point. This debate in particular is just a thing with me. It just seemed so obvious to me forever and I can't understand the other side at all.

Well, I think the portrait is ambiguous. They deliberately gave him rounded cheeks and wide eyes, which are very childhood markers. But they also gave him a strong chin and broad shoulders. I think the most you could get from the portrait is teenager past puberty. He could arguably look 13 or 17. I think what would throw most people off is the long hair. Long hair makes kids look much older. Cut off his hair in that picture and he deages suddenly. I would also point to the wide eyes particularly, because they are only for children. Not even older teenagers, but literally children. They more than anything make me think that he wasn't meant to be an older teen. I agree that he doesn't look like a child in the stain glass windows, however. The portrait doesn't change, that's my mistake. The stained glass does from the prince, to the prince and Belle.

My problem with the argument in either direction is that all the clues you may used to time the sequences are mere narrative devices. The rose you mentioned hadn't opened yet, because they need to show it was magical. They say it's the same rose from the witch, but the rose in the stained glass has clearly already bloomed. The portrait needed to look as close to the prince at the end as possible (though somewhat changed), so that you are reinforced that they are the same person. The stained glass is a study of power proportions. At first he's taller than the old woman, but then there is the reverse. He's taller and bigger than everyone in the stained glass of him alone. I do think 21st year, means his birthday since that would be odd as a magical number for the actual length of a spell (also, they probably want him the sage "age" as Belle). I wouldn't count out the lyrics because they supposed to be exposition. You're supposed to take them seriously. But ultimately, I think the witch was kinda horrible either way.

Seriously? Agree to disagree, because I don't think the portrait looks nearly that ambiguous. I mean, I have videos of when he turns human again and the portrait side by side and, facially, it's almost exactly the same. So we really just won't see eye to eye on that front. Though your statement about the hair did make me realize his hair is combed back, so I think whatever age he could gain in long hair (I'm imagining it and not seeing much difference. He's still a teen, albeit a pretty one.) is combated by it being combed back. Larger foreheads make people look younger too. I do get what you're saying with the wide eyes, since it's a pretty big rule of animation, but they aren't that big. His light blue eyes makes them seem wider than they are. The combed back hair helps on that front too.

Basically, the Beast is a pretty boy, so I guess anyone could debate back and forth on his age and maintain their opposite fronts.

What? So nothing in the prologue is meant to be taken at face value? Everything is just a narrative device? That would be very careless of the animators, when him being young would be a pretty important narrative detail. I can understand the stain glass because it's, you know...stain glass. Also, the old woman becomes taller than him because she changes into her form as an enchantress. It's an entirely different form. But seriously, I just don't understand how if the prince is meant to be a child, why it wouldn't be crystal clear because that obviously has narrative importance. I also think that anything shown in normal animation is fair game for literal interpretation because it matches the reality of the rest of the movie. Plus, they could easily show the rose was magic with just the burst of light without having it still be closed. Also in the scene, the Beast is totally huge. Was he that huge as a child? Maybe, but once again, it's assuming a lot just to make the math from one lyric fit.

Seriously, though. You're free to interpret it as you wish, but I just don't think that'sthe creators' intent at all. I wish I had a scanner for the story in my Tale As Old As Time book that explains all the discrepancies (Howard Ashman, the lyricist, did want the prince to be a child, hence he is responsible for the "ten years" line and the cause of all the problems. The other writers disagreed. I will not count this as actual argument because I cannot provide proof, but I just needed to explain it.)

I would say that he's a late teen and ages a bit to be 21. I originally forgot about the 21st year bit. So, maybe 17 to 21. But he's definitely not a child. No way. The Broadway show disagrees, the prologue disagrees. If I have to make all the math fit though, I'll go with my Timey Wimey theory. I'd even say Lumiere is just a drama queen before I could see anything in that prologue that indicates he's a child.

I obviously won't convince you, but I'm just sayin'

We can disagree on the portrait. I think the eyes are unnaturally wide. It's not just the blue eyes, but the fact that they don't fit in his face, they're so wide. They simply don't look that wide in his human form. I think it's incredibly odd that they made his portrait look almost surprised. But are we agreeing on the definition of teen? Teen is 13-19 to me. What do you mean?

The Beast being young would be an incredibly irrelevant detail. The only way it would matter is if the enchantress was involved in the plot, since his age would directly reflect on his relationship with her. Otherwise though, the creators were hardly trying to pinpoint an age. He was young, and whatever young means to you. This is completely ignoring the fact that things that have narrative importance get completely overlooked. They're in some french-speaking land, so Prince most likely implies there is a King, at the very least. The stained glass shows that there were lands, knights, a town, peasants, none of which can be considered inside the castle or living there, and therefore weren't part of the spell. Where in heaven's name did these people go? Not to mention that there is a strong inference that the only other people affected were servants. The actual story does a better, but still vague, job of letting you know that the castle is enchanted just for people in need, because otherwise you would have to wonder how in 4 years (if he's 17 as you say), people completely forgot the kingdom existed. He doesn't even have a reputation. I mean, it's distant from Belle's town, but it's really just beyond some woods. Not to mention Gaston and the townsfolk seem to find it okay.

I would agree with you about being literal, if this weren't a fairy tale, and a great deal of the setting of fairy tales are their agelessness. The narrative purposes are much more important than any passage of time. I mean they could easily have just made the rose closed in the stained glass, but they didn't. He also has to have enough time to get depressed about it, and but you could make arguments either way there. I think he's a teenager and not 11, but as I said teenager is 13-19 to me.

[ SECRET POST #1788 ]

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So this also got long-winded

Re: So this also got long-winded

Re: So this also got long-winded