Case (![[personal profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/silk/identity/user.png)
case) wrote in ![[community profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/silk/identity/community.png)
fandomsecrets2012-01-02 12:21 pm
case) wrote in fandomsecrets2012-01-02 12:21 pm
[ SECRET POST #1826 ]
⌈ Secret Post #1826 ⌋
Warning: Some secrets are NOT worksafe and may contain SPOILERS.
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[Labyrinth]
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[Madlax]
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[The Meek, String Theory]
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[The Baby-sitters Club]
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[Shitsurakuen]
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[Infernal Devices]
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[Midsomer Murders]
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[Matilda]
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[Disney's Hunchback of Notre Dame]
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[My Chemical Romance]
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[Code Geass]
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[The Hobbit]
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[Howl's Moving Castle]
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[The 99]
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[Due South]
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Notes:
Early because New Year's stuff to do. (:
Secrets Left to Post: 06 pages, 143 secrets from Secret Submission Post #261.
Secrets Not Posted: [ 3 - posted twice ], [ 4 - secrets moved to regular post ], [ 1 - it's not a secret if you SIGN it ].
Current Secret Submissions Post: here.
Suggestions, comments, and concerns should go here.
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Seriously? Can we for ONCE maybe have a secret about Doug TenNapel without this bullshit being brought up?
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If I was supporting someone that said the stuff he said I would be glad to be informed about it.
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Let me just tell you that when people say stuff on the level of ignorance he said and feel bad later it just reeks of damage control rather than actual remorse, and even if he was nice to you irl you don't get to decide for other people wether his feelings are sincere or not.
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keep crying
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(Anonymous) 2012-01-03 07:56 pm (UTC)(link)no subject
I don't like it being brought up because I know Doug, and that's really not the kind of person he is. He's said some terrible things, yes, but it was out of stupidity and anger, and he regrets it and wants to move on. When his past mistakes continue to be spread around like this, still made an issue even though he's made many apologies, it worries me that he'll never be able to escape the shadow of his past bad choices and frankly he doesn't deserve that. I really think you should use that energy on much more actually hateful and bigoted people. Trust me, Doug isn't one of them. He's just done some real stupid shit before.
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okay.
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What do you even mean by "saw into his soul"? I know he's sincerely regretful for acting like a jerk and saying those upsetting things.
I can certainly understand how you could be offended by what he said, and thus hold a grudge, but I don't feel it's productive to well... just that, hold a grudge. I'm a bisexual woman in a committed relationship with another woman, and I still forgive him because sometimes people do and say dumb shit, but they usually then realize how dumb it was and then learn from it. I'm not gonna hold that against him, especially if I know he's legitimately sorry, which I know he is.
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>stupid shit that comes out of his brain
>his creative work
So it looks like you just don't like his work, which is another issue entirely. I'd rather not continue the conversation then, since I doubt I'd get through to you no matter what.
I just ask one small thing: If you're going to continue holding a grudge against him for your own personal reasons, please don't try to convince anyone else to grudge with you just for the sake of hating and grudging.
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Do you really want it though? It seems like you don't, like it still won't change your mind.
I'd rather not waste my time either if you're still gonna find an argument and continue holding a personal grudge.
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It's cute that you think this is a grudge, though. Really tells me a lot about your own point of view: "BAWWW HE DON'T LIKE MY HERO! HE JUST A HATER!!!!1one"
Love how you're so sure my opinion won't change when you won't even try to change it. Face it: you suck at debate. Go try doing something you might be better at, like... breathing, I suppose. (protip: it's inhale, then exhale, then repeat)
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I... wasn't even really trying to debate. Debating on the internet is usually pretty stupid to begin with. I was really just trying to inform you that he's apologized for his mistakes and is trying to move past them, and it'd be nice if you didn't continue dragging around stuff he regrets, not argue about anything. My opinion definitely isn't that you're just some "hater", I'm sorry if you thought that. If you don't like him and don't want to either, that's okay, that's your business. I'm just asking if you could please leave others to make their own decisions and opinions about him on their own. It's really not fair to judge someone solely on their negative traits or the mistakes they've made, or try to convince someone to judge a person based on that.
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Debate: you suck at it.
And even if these emails did exist, who's to say he's not blowing smoke, apologizing only because he got in trouble?
I don't like Earthworm Jim but had no opinion towards Tennapel until I found out about his unfortunate comments. So no, I'm not a hater. I just don't have any time for bigots.
And are you really telling me that I should respect other peoples' opinions by not sharing mine? If you're so concerned with what I'm telling people, here's a brilliant idea: PROVE ME FUCKING WRONG. Don't just tell me to shut up.
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Okay, I'll admit I didn't think to use the search, that was kind of dumb of me. Sorry about that.
You're right, he could be lying, but that could be true of anyone and I can't read his mind. To me he seemed sorry so because he's never been anything but a kind and accepting person to me I give him the benefit of the doubt.
Maybe if you apologize and start treating me and this conversation civilly, I'll send them to you.
I never asked you to "shut up" either. I asked you if you could please not force your opinions based on past negativity on other people and leave them to make their own decisions about person based on their own likes/experiences.
But if you really just want to be angry, which this all makes it it seem like you do, I feel pretty powerless anyway.
If I give up, will you be happy? I think that's all you really want to begin with. I don't even care if I'm "right" here, all I want is for others to be able to make fair and unbiased decisions about someone who's had a lot of positive impact on my life. Not argue. A vain attempt I guess. How about I just quit and give you want you want then? Maybe that'll save the both of us some stress.
Really, go on hating him if you want. I don't care. Just trying to force other people to hate him with you seems hypocritical and it bothered me, so that's the only reason I spoke out to begin with.
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If anything, I'm laughing: You're seriously expecting me to apologize? Seriously? Congratulations, you've made this conversation truly bizarre. All I asked for was some evidence to back your claims up. If I've gotten belligerent, it's because you refuse to do your part in this discussion despite my repeated requests. So you'll excuse me if I get frustrated.
You're telling me that I shouldn't tell other people what Doug did (or, as you put it, "force my opinions" on people, as if posting a couple of links on fandom secrets is forcing my opinion) on the basis that you think he's a nice guy and I'm not giving the full picture. Well, I apparently don't have the full picture. Why don't you enlighten me? Oh wait, you won't. "I HAVE PROOF BUT FIRST YOU MUST SOLVE MY MAZE! AND SAY YOU'RE SORRY"
I don't want you to quit. It's never been about that and it's not about me being right. What I want you to do, and what you categorically refuse to do, is show me what you are talking about, instead accusing me of being closed-minded and that it would be a waste of time. And then you accuse me of making the conversation uncivil? Who needs to be apologizing to who, here?
If Doug Tennapel and his work is that important to you, one would think you'd do a better job of standing up for him. Instead you've muttered about how "he's a really nice guy" and make vague references to proof of his sincere apologies that you're too "busy" (read: continuing a losing argument with me) to produce.
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(Anonymous) 2012-01-04 03:25 am (UTC)(link)Seriously, all dethtoll did was link to two articles showing him expressing his own opinions, which are rather distasteful. He didn't say that anyone has to hate doug or even that anyone has to disagree with them, but you seem to be under the impression that people should not be told about this, which is only breeding ignorance. YOU ARE FOSTERING IGNORANCE. If you don't believe me, think hard about what you've spoken out against today, you've spoken out against someone giving out information, and you've spoken out against people giving their opinion.
On the information aspect of it, you foster ignorance, you want it to stop being brought up, and you want people to not be told about it, in other words, you've taken the stance that ignorance is bliss, and people would be happier not knowing. That's fine for some, but not for everybody.
On the opinion side, it seems that you are not okay with people having a rather understandable knee-jerk reaction to doug's opinions on gay rights, but you are fine with your own knee-jerk reaction to someone holding the opinion that doug was being offensive. In other words, I find it highly hypocritical of you to blast dethtoll for the act of blasting doug.
Lastly, apologies are nice, but they do not erase the original act. Just try to imagine someone equating your entire sexual orientation to "taking a dump" and then ask yourself if it would erase the hurt you'd feel if the person was sorry. The answer is probably no, because you can't go into the past and undo the things you've done, you can try to atone for them, but an attempted atonement does not require a person to forgive and forget. In other words, has it occurred to you that people in the LGTB community might not accept his apology, and that they are perfectly justified in this?
Lastly, I find you demanding an apology from Dethtoll to be nothing short of ludicrous, you claim to have proof that Doug is sorry and has recanted his words, but you expect everyone to take this at face value without showing this proof. You first offered the excuse that it would be a pain in the ass to get it, and then after being told about the search feature we know your email has, you hide behind indignation that anyone would DARE to disagree with you and tell you that you're wrong, and demand an apology before you release these mythical emails (which may or may not exist, and if they do, may or may not be sincere.)
The fact is, one person in this situation linked to two articles in the spirit of spreading information about the hateful words of a hate-filled man, and another person in this situation jumped down his throat for doing this, calling it "bullshit" and saying how sick they were of people bringing it up, and how everyone should just have a mini-stroke already and forget he ever said it because he's SO SORRY YOU GUYS. And then you get indignant when your rudeness is returned to you tenfold, as you should have known to expect on the internet by the way, and demand an apology? It's laughable. The way I see this entire thread is, one guys posts a link, and then one girl screams at him for it. One of those two is now demanding an apology, and it's not the one who is owed one.
If you feel that doug is a good person, then that's fine, you're free to hold that opinion, even after knowing what he said. There's a chance you're right, and that he was misguided and is genuinely sorry for what he said, but that doesn't mean that what he said should be wiped from history. To me, that's the equivalent of a book burning, destroying information because you don't like the way it portrays you.
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(Anonymous) 2012-01-04 03:25 am (UTC)(link)But regardless of this, even if you are in fact right, and doug is a wonderful guy who thinks that gays should be treated equally, and with respect, the fact is that he did once say something horrible, and it's not wrong or offensive to point that out. I'll leave you with an example. let's say it's the 1950's, and instead of oppressing gays, the country is busy oppressing blacks. then some forward thinking individual comes up with the civil rights act, but there's one senator...let's say he's a democrat from west Virginia, who is so against the civil rights act, that he filibustered for over 24 hours, even having an aide stand in the hallway with a congressional piss bucket, so he could relieve himself while keeping one foot on the floor and therefore continue his filibuster. After he finally gives up due to exhaustion, the bill is passed. And this senator? Re-elected every term until he dies in office, of old age, at the age of 100. Do you think that in the many elections that took place since, carrying on into the 2000's, that it would have been wrong to point out that this man felt so incensed by the idea of equal rights for all races that he had an intern standing with a bucket ready for him to piss in so he could filibuster against the civil rights act? Do you think any amount of apology makes up for this in the eyes of a black person from that era who had witnessed and experienced the oppression first hand? Do you think it matters to the victims if he's sorry?
By the way, the guy sadly existed.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Strom_Thurmond
I'll leave you with that. I'm sure I'll get some nonsensical reply about how you can't show proof of this guy being sorry because dethtoll offended you, but the fact is, to me it doesn't matter if he's sorry, because when you make a comment like that, in public, on the record, KNOWING that it will wind up on the internet, you have to either A) really believe it or B) be really fucking stupid.
And I have no use for people in either of those categories, or the works they create.
Plus, I find his games to be poorly designed.
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(Anonymous) 2012-01-04 04:24 am (UTC)(link)As not only a lesbian, but a lesbian who happens to be a rather prominent game developer, I have to tell you that I find the man to be particularly unsavory, and not only would I never want anything to do with him or his work, but I think his work deserves to be blacklisted due to his rampant bigotry. If the articles had been published say, three or four years ago, maaaaaaaybe he might have changed, but in only a few MONTHS?! If you truly believe that someone can change something so profound in themselves in only a few months, then your naivety is truly boundless, and amazes me to no end.
Also, and this is my own particular opinion, but the Earthworm Jim games are truly horrid in game design. I played them on the ol' Genesis, and I have to tell you, even when I was a kid, that I wasn't impressed. That should tell you something.
I AM advocating for people to blacklist him, and his work. He is an eyesore in the gaming industry, and deserves to be blackballed from the industry as a whole.
The end.
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what a surprise
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(Anonymous) 2012-01-04 02:04 am (UTC)(link)no subject