fandomsecrets | [ SECRET POST #1899 ]

[ SECRET POST #1899 ]

⌈ Secret Post #1899 ⌋

Warning: Some secrets are NOT worksafe and may contain SPOILERS.

01.

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02.

[The Tempest]

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03.

[SGA]

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04.

[Life After People]

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05.

[Uncharted]

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06.

[Super]

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07.

[Japanese voice actors]

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08.

[Kamen Rider Den-O, Doctor Who ]

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09.

[Silent Hill 4: The Room]

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10.

[Tripod]

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11.

[True Blood]

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12.

[Cabin Pressure]

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13.

[How I Met Your Mother]

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14.

[Buffy the Vampire Slayer]

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15.

[Tinker Tailor Soldier Spy]

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16.

[Gossip Girl]

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17.

[Sense and Sensibility]

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18.

[FFX]

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19.

[The Princess and the Goblin]

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20.

[Code Geass]

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21.

[Star Trek (2009)]

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22.

[Tree of Life]

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Notes:

Secrets Left to Post: 02 pages, 042 secrets from Secret Submission Post #271.
Secrets Not Posted: [ 1 - broken links ], [ 0 - not!secrets ], [ 0 - not!fandom ], [ 0 - too big ], [ 0 - repeat ].
Current Secret Submissions Post: here.
Suggestions, comments, and concerns should go here.

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I disagree with you OP, and strongly, but I'm genuinely surprised you're taking this much flak over what's generally considered to be a fairly legitimate leftist-environmentalist viewpoint.

Although I suppose it's usually phrased less like "humans suck and deserve to be wiped out" and more like "humans are destroying the planet, show absolutely no signs of stopping - in fact they're speeding up, presently - and every other life form on Earth > humans if it comes to that".

I think its mostly the reasoning that's making people think OP is an idiot. Humans deserve to die because they haven't done anything to deserve living! Yeah and what has, exactly?

It's a pretty major leap from "humans are destroying the planet" to "all humans don't deserve to live."

I suppose I hear the leftist-environmentalist viewpoint phrased "humans are destroying the planet, therefore it would be preferable if all humans died before the damage is irreversible" enough that I assumed that was where the OP was going with it, talking about animals going on with their lives and whatnot. If that's not where the OP is going with it.... well, that's.... different. Sort of curious what sort of moral superiority they ascribe to animals, because it will say a lot more about the OP than it will about animals.

this isn't a legitimate viewpoint outside of a community college philosophy course. no one is actually saying this. jesus.

That.... humans are destroying the planet and that the value of the human race is not greater than that of every other life form on the planet, if it comes to that?

Or what the OP is saying - that humans "deserve" to die because of some "moral" inferiority to animals?

Because the latter, yes, I've never quite seen that one before. But the former? Oh dear, are there ever a lot of evironmentalists - with degrees, working in their fields, well over 40 and with children - that you've apparently never met.

what's with all the qualifiers there?

people who say things like "humans are destroying the planet" don't sound like people who have any clue what they're talking about, whether they're "over 40 and with children" or not (whatever that has to do with anything).

whether they're "over 40 and with children" or not (whatever that has to do with anything).

Well you said that OP's viewpoint was the sole province of college philosophy courses, which isn't even remotely true.

people who say things like "humans are destroying the planet"...

So... all politically active environmentalists? Most environmental biologists?

...don't sound like people who have any clue what they're talking about

"Biologists know (http://www.davidsuzuki.org/issues/wildlife-habitat/science/endangered-species-legislation/protecting-biodiversity/) what is causing this environmental crisis — human impacts from development, deforestation, pollution and climate change are destroying the homes and habitat of wildlife around the world."

You sound like a much more credible source than Dr. David Suzuki. You're probably right.

That's talking about humans effect on the environment, not the planet, There's a difference.

Wait, is this what you meant by "a lot of environmentalists - with degrees, working in their fields..." hold this viewpoint? Because, yes, environmentalists think humans are having an effect on the environment, which is NOT the same as them thinking we're destroying the planet, as in, the actual Earth itself.

Edited 2012-03-16 04:52 (UTC)

Really. This is where we're backtracking to. "Humans aren't tearing apart the physical earth on which animals and the ecosystems that sustain them reside - that spinning ball of molten rock is perfectly intact! Ergo, humans are not destroying "the planet"!".

They are, however - and biologists agree - destroying the aforementioned life-forms and the ecosystems that sustain them at an ever-increasing rate, hence the "humans are not worth more than the sum of every other life-form on the planet" claim, and yes, many biologists and environmentalists are of that view, if environmental destruction is left unchecked.

But if you want to pretend that "the environment" and "the planet" were not being used interchangeably because it makes it look like the above poster didn't say something profoundly stupid, by all means. Humans are not (yet) destroying their ball of rock.

Have a lovely evening.

(no subject)

ariseishirou.livejournal.com - 2012-03-16 05:06 (UTC) - Expand

I'm talking about the juvenile level of discourse in this secret and the way you're weirdly coming in and trying to act like this is an actual issue being discussed. the OP isn't talking about "leftist-environmentalist" anything. if you want to swish around and make yourself feel smart, this is a really dumb thread to do it in.

If that's true, why didn't you stop the first time I pointed out that the OP made their point very badly, if indeed the philosophy I ascribed to it was the point they were trying to make (poorly) at all?

Factual statements about relevant political views = "swishing around and mak(ing) myself feel smart"?

Who's being juvenile, again?

you said the OP's secret was a legitimate viewpoint. I said that was silly, because it is.

there are no relevant political views here, just an OP who thinks they're Sephiroth and a bunch of posters trying to out-pontificate each other as if "human beings are terrible and we've done nothing to justify existing and should all just die and thinking about that makes me happy" is a real issue being brought to the floor of the UN.

(no subject)

ariseishirou.livejournal.com - 2012-03-16 06:36 (UTC) - Expand

There's also a difference between killing off a LOT of different species and ending all life on earth. A lot of people are of the opinion that killing off a shit ton of species isn't "destroying the earth" because unless literally all life if killed off new species will eventually arise and take the place of the old.

Mass extinctions have previously happened and will happen again - and the earth will continue on with different species than it had before.

Um, have you not heard of the Climate Change Conferences? Where world leaders meet to discuss how to stop our environmental devastation?

Either you're trolling, or just that oblivious

who's talking about climate change? I thought this was a thread about "humanity" being "wiped out" because of all the "evil things we do to each other". did you even read the secret?

Different anon.

Basically, this thought process is at the back of every Malthusian panic, every "we must get people to have fewer children", every "the world cannot sustain this many people", every "we must increase sex education and contraceptives in third world countries, because those stupid poor people have too many children", and a good chunk of environmentalism as a whole.

And I say this as someone who believes there is strong evidence of anthropocentric climate change, and as someone who tries hard to reduce my environmental impact. There are creepy undercurrents in mainstream environmentalism, hence why the Green Party in the UK used to propose caps on family size (I don't know if they still do). It's the culture of death, and it's why many third world communities side-eye the Hell out of the scientific 'missionaries' who come to fix them.

But what do you care? Why would it matter to you if, for example, every person on the planet was sterilised so that there was no next generation? I know why I'd care, but I don't think you agree with me in terms of the value of all human life.

(no subject)

ariseishirou.livejournal.com - 2012-03-16 13:02 (UTC) - Expand

(no subject)

(Anonymous) - 2012-03-16 17:43 (UTC) - Expand

generally considered to be a fairly legitimate leftist-environmentalist viewpoint.

No.

I see I'm going to end up copypasting this all night.

That.... humans are destroying the planet and that the value of the human race is not greater than that of every other life form on the planet, if it comes to that?

Or what the OP is saying - that humans "deserve" to die because of some "moral" inferiority to animals?

Because the latter, yes, I've never quite seen that one before. But the former? Oh dear, are there ever a lot of evironmentalists - with degrees, working in their fields, well over 40 and with children - that you've apparently never met.

So, wait... earlier you said this is "generally considered to be a legitimate viewpoint", but I've never heard it. How can a viewpoint be "generally" considered anything if even someone who cares about the issue has never heard of someone who holds it? You'd think if it was so generally considered legitimate, I'd be hearing about it all over the place...

Which viewpoint are you talking about? That animals are "morally" superior to humans and "deserve" to die, or that the environment would be better off without humans? Because if you've never heard the latter I severely doubt you're all that engaged in the issue.

As for why you've never heard the former, I have no idea, by I certainly have, and it was a cause for intelligent discourse rather than "STFU special snowflake hipster!!!111".

But, then, this is the internet.

Which viewpoint are you talking about?

The one you brought up, and were talking about when I quoted you.

I brought up two viewpoints. Which one are you talking about?

(no subject)

fenm.livejournal.com - 2012-03-16 05:12 (UTC) - Expand

(no subject)

ariseishirou.livejournal.com - 2012-03-16 05:14 (UTC) - Expand

Argh. Climate change is one of the hot topics on the United Nations' agenda right now. (Not that anything is actually being done about it...)

My poli sci loving self is cringing at these posts.

"humans are destroying the planet, show absolutely no signs of stopping - in fact they're speeding up, presently - and every other life form on Earth > humans if it comes to that".

This pisses me off too. Humans aren't destroying the planet. We're causing the extinction of a lot of different species, but unless we kill off literally all life on the planet, eventually it will recover with new species filling new niches.

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