[ SECRET POST #1901 ]

[case]

⌈ Secret Post #1901 ⌋


Warning: Some secrets are NOT worksafe and may contain SPOILERS.


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Notes:

Secrets Left to Post: 06 pages, 150 secrets from Secret Submission Post #272.
Secrets Not Posted: [ 1 2 - broken links ], [ 1 2 3 - not!secrets ], [ 1 - not!fandom ], [ 0 - too big ], [ 0 - repeats ]
Current Secret Submissions Post: here.
Suggestions, comments and concerns should go here.

Comments

[misco.livejournal.com]

I'm a little fuzzy on that incident because I haven't rewatched it since it aired but I was under the impression that he didn't have much of a choice in that situation; wasn't her mind going to burn up (or whatever) if he didn't wipe it?

I mean, I'm not endorsing mind rape or anything but I do think this is more of a writer issue (like you say) than an in-story problem.

[philstar22.livejournal.com]

Nope, you aren't wrong. In-canon, he didn't have a choice. Which is why my issues are with Moffatt for writing it that way, not with Ten for doing what canon was saying he had to. Some fans, though, feel like when she said no that meant he should have left it and let her die. Which I don't agree with. But I can kind of understand that viewpoint since it would have been her choice.

[misco.livejournal.com]

I've never really thought about this issue before (because season four isn't my primary area of interest in the show) but I can totally see where those fans are coming from. I think overall it's probably better that he did perform the wipe but if she had been given the choice then at least we would have known what she preferred. It's a problematic storyline that Moffatt really should have thought about more before writing.

[fenm.livejournal.com]

Davies, not Moffat...

[philstar22.livejournal.com]

You are right. I got mixed up. It was Davies. Which is why I always want to tell people, when they complain about sexism from Moffatt, that Davies was just as bad. I think the fate of Donna was easily the most sexist thing in all of NuWho.

[fenm.livejournal.com]

He was just a bad, yes, but that hardly excuses Moffat.

It doesn't help that Moffat is in another fandom I love, and he occasionally gets his sexist bullshit all over that, too. But then, I think there are other issues with his writing (caring about plot over character [to the point where characters act inconsistently even within his own writing based on what he wants the plot to do], thinking characters endlessly spouting catchphrases is clever, etc).

I think the fate of Donna was easily the most sexist thing in all of NuWho.

I think I know why, but could you elaborate? Maybe my reasons and your reasons are different.

[philstar22.livejournal.com]

Choice is important to me, and the fact that the story was written specifically so her choice was taken away from her and so that another character was forced to basically mind rape her is just really icky to me.

[fenm.livejournal.com]

Ah.... yeah. I mean, under the circumstances, I don't blame the Doctor, but there was no reason that plot point needed to exist.

What bugged me: Rose had the whole Space-Time Continuum in her, and the The Doctor kissed her and had time to regenerate. Donna only has The Doctor's memories in her.. and he couldn't do something similar?

[philstar22.livejournal.com]

Exactly. I don't personally blame the doctor, but I firmly blame Davies for that plot even existing. It was disgusting and unnecessary. And you are right that Rose had even more in her and the Doctor only had to kiss her to fix it.

[fenm.livejournal.com]

Yeah...
I think we've pretty much exhausted this bit of the thread. (-:

[bluejessie.livejournal.com]

I don't know about this. The way I feel about it is, in-story the whole situation was sort of devastasting to me. But, looking at it from a plotline point of view, I think it was brilliant. (If that makes any sense - I think it was terrible depressing, but also a great idea storywise.)

The thing is, I don't think the Doctor really wanted to take that choice from her. But he sort of felt that he had to. I think after Davros reminded him of all the deaths he'd caused (remember the montage of deaths from all of NuWho?), the idea of another companion dying was just so unbearable for him that he felt he needed to do whatever he could to just not let her die, even if it meant doing something terrible to her. And I think that that choice really affected him. The rest of Ten's run, and all the terrible things that happened during it, seem to stem largely from the guilt that he felt over what he did to Donna. I sort of got the feeling that even up until his regeneration, he was still reeling from that choice. (I also kind of have a theory that Eleven still isn't over that guilt, either, but that's more of a fantheory than anything.)

I wish that there had been a more tangible consequence for what he'd done to Donna. (And am kind of sort of hoping maybe she'll come back one day and make him face up to it, though I'll admit it's unlikely.) But I think that even though what the Doctor did was A Bad Thing, I think that it was intended to be. That was part of the story, and sort of the catalyst for the downfall of 10, you know?

[fenm.livejournal.com]

the idea of another companion dying

"Another" companion dying? None of the Doctor's companions have died in New Who.

And, no, sorry, I still think this was bullshit.

[were-lemur.livejournal.com]

Well, Jack died. But he got better.

[fenm.livejournal.com]

Well, Rory did too, for that matter... Oh, but that was after this... nvmd.

But the new show has yet had a companion die for good. Granted, it happened pretty rarely on the old show too, so... [shrug]

I just found the phrasing "another companion" a little odd.

[bluejessie.livejournal.com]

I don't know why I'm bothering to respond to this, since you're clearly not interested in other opinions, but a lot of the people that died could be considered companions. It's not a trademarked phrase. The point was, he's seen a lot of people die, and doesn't want to see any more.

FTR, he still thinks Jenny's dead, and he spent a good chunk of the episode thinking Donna was dead as well.

[fenm.livejournal.com]

but a lot of the people that died could be considered companions.<'/>

No. The word companion, as used in DW, means a specific thing. It's not "some random person the Doctor knew for a few hours".

The point was, he's seen a lot of people die, and doesn't want to see any more.

This is true.