[ SECRET POST #1920 ]

[case]

⌈ Secret Post #1920 ⌋

Warning: Some secrets are NOT worksafe and may contain SPOILERS.

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26. http://i42.tinypic.com/21m7v28.png
[linked for... sort of scribbly porny, not really]








Notes:

Secrets Left to Post: 02 pages, 040 secrets from Secret Submission Post #274.
Secrets Not Posted: [ 0 - broken links ], [ 0 - not!secrets ], [ 0 - not!fandom ], [ 0 - too big ], [ 0 - repeat ].
Current Secret Submissions Post: here.
Suggestions, comments, and concerns should go here.

Comments

[(Anonymous)]

da

You're right, it's silly to expect words to mean, you know, what they mean.

[sephystabbity.livejournal.com]

You know what's silly? Thinking that words such as misogyny and misandry do not come with a historical and social context. In both contexts, women have historically been the oppressed group, not men. Women do not have the power (and historically, have not had the power) that men have, to be going around oppressing men. Equating misandry to misogyny is completely ridiculous.

But that would be silly, to expect you to understand that.

[veronica-rich.livejournal.com]

The practice of discriminating based on male or female appears to be termed sexism. Misogyny and misandry are feelings that can be acted on or not and, in that sense, are equal. They're both derived from "misanthropy." There are misogynistic men who nonetheless accept women in the same jobs as men and support choice for them, for example; they just don't like dealing with them as much as men. (Honestly, the people I know like this just tend to be misanthropes, period, though.)

[sephystabbity.livejournal.com]

We're talking about misogyny, aka hatred against women, which manifests itself in the form of sexual discrimination (amongst other things). This cannot be considered equal to misandry because women are not in the level of power in society to sexually discriminate against men, to the same level that men can sexually discriminate against women.

[veronica-rich.livejournal.com]

Misogyny is a feeling or belief. Misandry is a feeling or belief. These are not manifestations of feelings or beliefs. Sexism is the manifestation of one or both of those feelings or beliefs, and the fact is that most of our world is not set up for putting misandry into practice as sexism in any meaningful or real way that harms men.

In fact, one American Heritage definition of sexism is: discrimination or devaluation based on a person's sex, as in restricted job opportunities; especially, such discrimination directed against women. The same guide's definition of misogyny is: hatred, dislike, or mistrust of women. You don't have to take my word for it, and perhaps other reputable dictionaries switch these around or add to one or the other. (Note: "misandry" is also a recognized word in this sense.)

I'm not arguing the quality of social justice - I'm only addressing the meanings of words. They're fairly important. It's why we have so many and different ones. If a known misogynist hires a woman for a high-level job (and it does happen) over a man, it doesn't necessarily make him any less a misogynist, it just means he is not practicing sexism in this instance - meaning, he's not putting his feelings into actions. As adults, we have feelings every day that we don't act upon.

[sephystabbity.livejournal.com]

Misogyny is a feeling that gives rise to sexual discrimination. Therefore it is not on the same level as misandry, because women do not have the power, socially, to discriminate against men, to the same level that men have the power to discriminate against women. Therefore, it is ridiculous to equate misogyny to misandry.

[veronica-rich.livejournal.com]

I'm not sure where we disagree, except that I do accept "misandry" is an actual concept. I already noted that sexism as it exists feeds off of misogyny rather than misandry; I've done nothing ridiculous. My part is simply a discussion of language, which is an interest of mine. Plenty of sci-fi and fantasy writers have examined what a misandry-fueled sexist society might look like, and considering we're still in F!S having this discussion, I don't think my remarks have been out of line or tangental.

[sephystabbity.livejournal.com]

My statement was that it is ridiculous to compare misogyny to misandry, and ridiculous to say that misogyny is equal to misandry. I stand by my statement that this claim is ridiculous. Women do not have the social power to discriminate against men. Men, on the other hand, do have and have acted on the social power that they have to act against women, fuelled by misogyny. As for your remarks about science fiction: reality is not science fiction , what S/F writers might seek to make of the world, is not what the world is.

As for your being unsure about where we disagree, well, I sure hope you had thought about that one before jumping into the argument. Being confused about the matter, after disagreeing, seems rather irrational.

[veronica-rich.livejournal.com]

Ah, this is going to be one of those threads, LOL. Or would be if I stuck with it longer. There's only so many ways of repeating one thing, and I readily confess I'm not as creative at it. Thanks for the discussion.

[sephystabbity.livejournal.com]

Most welcome.

[(Anonymous)]

if words having context is such a big deal to you guys, then why do you get so angry at people using words like "lame" or "crazy"? somebody saying "OH MAN THAT WAS SOOO LAME" or "that movie was CRAZY" is using a word in a context that is not offensive, and yet i've seen people get yelled at for using terms like that because they're "oppressive".

[sephystabbity.livejournal.com]

Stop changing the topic. We were talking about misogyny. Don't try to bring in ad hominem attacks based on other words, just because you can't defend your claim as to why misogyny is equal to misandry.