[ Officially moving to Dreamwidth! Announcement post. ]

[case]

FS is moving! So, as you may or may not have heard, due to these new comment changes on top of the old ones, FS will be shifting over to DW. I'm hoping to do it starting next Saturday. From then, the main posts will be over at the community on Dreamwidth. But don't panic yet! It's not all too different. Here's how it'll work: 0. There won't be any downtime. One post a day will continue! 1. The main post is on FS @ dreamwidth. Everything over there works pretty much the exactly same as it does over here on LJ, with the addition of a few important features (detailed below in the "why we're moving" section). 2. But don't worry, you won't miss your daily post even if you're sticking solely to LJ. I'll be updating FS @ LJ as well with a link to the post on DW. It'll be exactly what you see on every other FS post on the Recent Entries page (image #1 and a cut), except the cut will take you over to the main post over there. You'll still receive LJ notifications from LJFS and see when it updates on your friendlist and everything. You don't have to go anywhere! 3. Submissions posts will go up on DW, but since it's anon anyway, there's no need for you to make an account. If you are interested in making an account, it's still free, but it's not absolutely necessary. (For now/this week, keep using the LJ post. Everything in there will still go up next week after the move. All submissions posts after that will be on Dreamwidth, though.) 4. Comments will be over at DW, but openID is available and you can easily post with your LJID (info and links at the bottom of this post). Alternatively, if you have a DW account, you can remain logged into DW, just like with LJ - no need to log in/log out or flip back and forth or anything since they're two different sites and you can automatically remain logged in on different accounts on both. 5. FS archives on LJ will remain up, of course! But why are we moving? The basic, overarching reason: the direction LJ seems to be taking is one toward Facebook and away from a classic blogging system, and they have a long history (think years, not months) of not caring much about fandom in general even if we are a loyal, vocal part of their userbase. The platform is supposed to be for facilitating conversations and communities, and LJ's changes keep making that harder over here. From what I've seen of DW, they're doing that part of it right, at least. Think about it this way: a whole lot of fandom is already over on DW. And while there might still be more of us on LJ than DW right now in terms of numbers, it seems like DW is where blog-based fandom is slowly but steadily going. Every new change LJ makes to the commenting system is making it harder and harder for fandom to stay here. A whole lot of big RPs and a bunch of kink memes - everything that relies on comments, like FS - have moved over to DW already, and it doesn't seem like a trend that will ever stop, at this point. The main/immediate reasons (why now?) is that with LJ's new commenting system: A) I can't mod the place properly (a lot of it due to the comment changes detailed in point B below). Whether you're here for wank or trolling or what, the fact of the matter is that FS is not supposed to be a no-holds-barred anon comm - and if that's what you're looking for, you're in the wrong place to begin with. There's most certainly a difference between fandom wank and other sorts of wank, if the non-fandom, unmoderated kind is what you're looking for, ask around for links - there are plenty of other places to find that stuff. B) People can't read the place properly. When someone hits "...and 100 comments," they're stuck there expanding everything (with no idea whether they just expanded a single 100 comment thread, or 100 separate comment threads all at once). The alternative they have is to open up a new tab for every thread they want to follow - but this really shouldn't be necessary. It takes a whole lot of usability away from the comm, especially on mobile devices. "It looks ugly/I personally dislike it/I don't like the people" is one thing but it's of lower priority when compared to "I can't load all this" "I can't tell what people are responding to" "I expanded 100 comments full of surprise .gifs to see where the 'new reply' was and it wasn't anywhere near my own thread" - that makes basic usability really difficult for you guys. The whole point is easy discussion: and this is why FS will never move to somewhere like Tumblr even with something like Disqus (covered below). Tumblr is bad for that - and LJ is going downhill. What DW has (by default) that LJ doesn't: comment subject lines comment previews easily navigable comment trees comments viewable by everyone (no disappearing comment glitches while logged out) expanding comments for everyone, not just paid users (FS has expand for everyone as a paid comm, but on DW no real money would have to keep going into it) more usable interface in general (no dragging you to the top of the screen to post a new comment, et cetera) faster loading times The list keeps getting longer with each LJ release. This shouldn't be happening. Working around LJ to make all this available and to undo all the things that LJ has done is probably possible, but the point is that shouldn't be necessary either. And with all the changes that keep happening, who knows when workarounds will cease to work? But why not Tumblr + Disqus? While Disqus was meant to add commenting ability to pages with no comment functionality, it's obvious that it was created as an add-on and not meant to be the core part of any large discussion site. For small personal blogs, it seems to work fine. For an FS post with about 1000 comments? Not so much. It's not the functionality that's the problem with Tumblr + Disqus: it's the sheer scale. Can comments happen? Yes - but: if you want an example of a site using Disqus, look at the the company's blog (this post has around 600 comments: FS on a slow day). you have to load the entire page at once (or have it limited so that you have to hit "load more" to see more threads, which all then load at once) there's absolutely no auto collapse or expand feature at all (this can be done manually but only after loading everything first anyway) you can't link to individual threads or comments there are no parent/thread buttons so with long threads, it's hard to tell who replied to who comments do not support general html/embedding (images/video can be uploaded or linked, but only as clickable thumbnails) comments can't be locked/organized before the post goes up It looks nice on their corporate blog! But for FS's purposes, it's worse than LJ at this point. But why not a poll? Because with the changes LJ is making, FS is starting to lose its fundamental purpose. I understand that the platform shift is a major change, and that some people will be unhappy about this. But it's not about deciding where FS will be hosted or simply a matter of convenience any more. DW seems to be the best platform right now to house FS as FS: "a secret comm with semi-moderated fandom discussion with easy user interactivity and communication being a huge and fundamental part of the whole." When staying on LJ starts taking away from that, convenience and aesthetics unfortunately takes a backseat to "the whole intended point." But why don't you just get more mods? I VOLUNTEER! And I appreciate that, I really do! But here's the explanation I gave to somebody before: "[T]here are plenty of people willing, sure, but willing doesn't necessarily mean dedicated/capable/fair. Of course they might be! I'm sure some are, it's not like it's incredibly hard or anything. But I also find lots of issues arise when a comm has multiple mods - personal drama, disagreements between mod decisions, timezone issues, people dividing workloads then assuming that since other people are there, they can just ask someone else to cover if they're busy, right? resulting in the others playing emergency patch-up instead of having been ready for it (it's not their day, why should they be?), cliqueish stuff, et cetera. (FS has had multiple mods before. It's actually easier just doing everything alone.)" All of the above is sort of especially important when it comes to comms dealing with wanky subjects (like most secret comms), and the thing is - it's not that I'm incapable of handling it alone. The volume of conversation isn't the problem - the usability of LJ itself and actually accessing that volume of conversation is the problem. On top of that, "more mods" wouldn't really solve any of the other usability/readability problems for readers in section B of why we're moving. But FS will die! While I honestly don't think that will happen, it's won't say it's an impossibility. What I can say is that even if it does, I'll probably still be there 'til the end. I've been doing this for over five years, every single day, and I can say it's absolutely no problem to me updating daily, whether there are 100 secrets in a day or 10, or 5. I remember back when it was five, and the comm had 10 watchers - it's not really about the numbers. This was never about popularity or whatever in the first place - actually, honestly, it was about trolling everybody. "Man, imagine the wank if there was LJ Secret for fandom? WE SHOULD DO IT." But then it exploded and turned into something a whole lot bigger which took way more time and effort to maintain - but I don't regret that a bit. Beyond all the petty wank, FS has provided entertainment for hundreds of people on a daily basis, served as an indirect news feed about everything going on in tons of different LJ fandoms, spawned a whole lot of spin-off comms of its own - and you guys have connected people, inspired them, educated them, made friends, saved lives - That's pretty good, I'd say. Besides, if FS goes to DW and dies, then well, that leaves a nice gap here on LJ for another fandom comm to fill, doesn't it? And if one does pop up that's better than everything else, I'd probably come follow it. So... A collection of useful links! FS on Dreamwidth OpenID Guide (for those who want to comment to DW with their LJ accounts) **Note: It's not mentioned, but you CAN upload icons to OpenIDs! Just log in and upload them like you usually would, you get up to 15. Example!** General Guide to DW for LJ users All Dreamwidth Guides Dreamwidth FAQs And as for what you can do to help - just two things. 1. Come along - if you like. 2. Spread the word! If you have more questions about the move, feel free to throw them my way! The decision to move has already been made, but anything other than that, or anything regarding that - ask away. Can't promise I can respond to everything, but I'll be watching this post for sure. Move Date: Saturday, June 2nd Hope to see you then! ETA: One of the first things I do want to do when FS moves over is an FS friending meme - for DW. Even if they don't use DW as a blog, people can re-add their LJ friends/find new interesting people over there! ETA2: FSDW RSS feed for those who prefer that option! ETA3: !! Whoever bought FS a paid account on DW, thank you! Info on: Paid Accounts | Paid Communities That's pretty awesome. In light of that, I'm opening up membership - members still won't be able to post, but you guys can get the community benefits! ETA4: Test post, come spam!

Comments

[(Anonymous)]

You really are completely fucking clueless.

It sucks because it's harder to use. The specific reasons for this have been given multiple times. It's especially hard for the mod who, despite some haters being jackasses towards him, really does an excellent job and puts in a lot of work so we can enjoy this comm. Tired of the ungrateful asshats tbh.

People miss the subject lines, they find the new collapsed comment system hard to navigate and takes a very long time to load/crashes peoples' browsers - and there are probably more but those two reasons alone are very legitimate reasons for not liking change. They make LJ frustrating to use.

And finally, so what if some people don't like it because it's change? The LJ staff shouldn't be persisting in implementing and maintaining that the majority of their users and supporters DO NOT WANT TO HAVE. They're being complete assholes to the people who continue to support their site both with money and with traffic and activity.

(this kind of goes to all the anons/anon comments in this thread who are saying similar things, but this seemed like an especially appropriate comment to reply to)

[(Anonymous)]

The "specific reasons" given for why it's "harder" have all boiled down to "BUT IT'S DIFFERENT AND I DON'T LIKE IT!" So yes, I will call people out for being hypocritical douchebags. If you're going to bitch about LJ staff not listening to you and then not even want to find out what your community thinks before you move, you're being an asshole. But this is ~Technophile~ so it's totally okay amirite?

[(Anonymous)]

The "specific reasons" given for why it's "harder" have all boiled down to "BUT IT'S DIFFERENT AND I DON'T LIKE IT!"

I suggest you read my comment again, and try to find this part:

People miss the subject lines, they find the new collapsed comment system hard to navigate and takes a very long time to load/crashes peoples' browsers - and there are probably more but those two reasons alone are very legitimate reasons for not liking change. They make LJ frustrating to use.

Also:

But this is ~Technophile~ so it's totally okay amirite?

To be fair, maybe he should have tried for a little more community input. BUT, there's only so much that will do before just dissolving into a big argument/wankfest. In a comm so big I kind of doubt a democracy-style decision-making process would be effective and it would take forfuckingever, plus there's no way to verify it would be fair since people can make a bajillion sock accounts. I comment tech for making the decision he felt was most beneficial to the members of this comm. He's not doing it just ~because he can.

And you sound like an ungrateful douche - he's been working at this and putting time into it every fucking day for five years just so we can have some fun. But he's supposed to do it the way you want it to to make you happy, right? Entitled much?

[(Anonymous)]

sa

comment should be commend, obv

woops

[(Anonymous)]

People miss the subject lines, they find the new collapsed comment system hard to navigate and takes a very long time to load/crashes peoples' browsers - and there are probably more but those two reasons alone are very legitimate reasons for not liking change. They make LJ frustrating to use.

And all I hear is "IT'S DIFFERENT AND I HATE IT!" because nobody else I've seen outside of this place seems to have an issue.

In a comm so big I kind of doubt a democracy-style decision-making process would be effective and it would take forfuckingever, plus there's no way to verify it would be fair since people can make a bajillion sock accounts.

But it would totally work for an entire site with millions of accounts. Gotcha. Like I said, it's fucking hypocrisy because it's good and it works when ~Technophile~ does it, but not the LJ staff (who have a much fucking harder job than he does, I might add).

And you sound like an ungrateful douche - he's been working at this and putting time into it every fucking day for five years just so we can have some fun. But he's supposed to do it the way you want it to to make you happy, right? Entitled much?

When he arbitrarily ignores his own rules, no, it isn't fun. It's the hallmark of a shit mod.

[(Anonymous)]

DA

nobody else I've seen outside of this place seems to have an issue

sfd_anon?
CFUD (once the biggest RP on LJ)?
Several kink memes, which are finding it harder and harder to function without subject lines and now even a way to see at a glance what's been updated?

Seriously, check the news post. You won't see a majority of people going "OMG SO GREAT"

Don't follow? Great. Stay here. Won't miss your entitled ass.

[(Anonymous)]

Of course you won't. That's LJ users for you. They have bitching about change down to a fine art.

And lol someone who is throwing a giant hissyfit over a few collapsed threads has no business calling anyone else entitled.

[(Anonymous)]

ayrt

And all I hear is "IT'S DIFFERENT AND I HATE IT!" because nobody else I've seen outside of this place seems to have an issue.

You need to get a clue then because one, obviously you lack basic reading comprehension and two, the negative responses to LJ's changes have been loud and clear throughout the entire site, not just on f!s. And we're not the only comm that's moving! All the RP's went there ages ago and kinkmemes are making the change too - so basically a lot of the traffic that LJ thrives on, is leaving. Because people don't like what's going on.

But it would totally work for an entire site with millions of accounts. Gotcha.

Like I said, LJ has a long history of ignoring users' wishes and negative responses to change are getting jack shit response from the staff. otoh with this, the move to DW is getting mostly POSITIVE responses (have you read the comments to this post? no? well go read them). And I don't think LJ should be run like a democracy, no - just that their staff needs to pay attention to what people, in general, are saying. I'd say Tech is doing that - he's not moving despite a majority of people wanting to stay. A lot of people support the move. Oh, and there's the part about how moving to DW will make Tech's job way easier while still making it accessible to all the watchers here without a lot of added trouble on their part.

When he arbitrarily ignores his own rules, no, it isn't fun.

Ok, now I'm genuinely curious. When/where has he done that? I'd like to know.

[(Anonymous)]

Of course everyone's going to bitch on LJ News. It's been a tradition since 19-fucking-99. That doesn't mean the changes are as widely hated as you want to believe. The millions of users who are having no problem you're obviously not gonna hear from.

All the RP's went there ages ago and kinkmemes are making the change too - so basically a lot of the traffic that LJ thrives on, is leaving

LMFAO, no. RPs and kinkmemes are a very very very very tiny portion of LJ's total traffic. The way fandom likes to pretend it's important enough for LJ to give two flying fucks about will never stop being funny. Y'all need that ego deflated before it eats Chicago or something.

And I don't think LJ should be run like a democracy, no - just that their staff needs to pay attention to what people, in general, are saying.

LOL. What do you think a democracy is, dipshit? But hey, keep going. It's funny watching delusional fandom retards on the internet make whiny asses of themselves.

[(Anonymous)]

>> The way fandom likes to pretend it's important enough for LJ to give two flying fucks about will never stop being funny.

...y'know, that actually sounds like a pretty good reason for fandom to leave. I mean, if you're in a place that isn't working for you and you're pretty unimportant in the grand scheme of things and all, and if more people'll listen to you elsewhere and you can get things done better, then moving kinda makes a whole lotta sense, actually. At least, it makes more sense than trying to complain or ask for changes to cater to yourself and all.

[(Anonymous)]

Then leave. Nobody's going to miss your whiny entitled asses, either.

[(Anonymous)]

Yeah, I mean, I thought that was the point of F!S moving and all.


Like, if you think people here are sorta whiny and complaining about stuff and you'd rather them not be here, then the fact that FS and a bunch of other people are probably shifting over should be a good thing, right?

[(Anonymous)]

Yeah, I guess it is. The sooner you entitled retards the leave, the better LJ will be. I'd rather have no activity than people constantly bitching every time something changes.

[(Anonymous)]

Then you'll have no one to fight with. You poor thing. No, no, don't cry. It has to be this way.

[(Anonymous)]

Nah, there will always be a few stragglers who will stay on LJ just to complain about it. They'll provide plenty of entertainment.

Go now, honey, the train's gonna leave without you!

[(Anonymous)]

lmao if you don't like fandom...then why are you here?

And when the second most popular comm on LJ is ALL ABOUT fandom, I'd say it's pretty damn important.

(I wonder though where you can find the stats about what percentage of LJ's traffic goes into fandom comms and what percentage goes into pop culture comms, diy comms, and other stuff. or if there's a way to gauge how many personal journals are fandom-centric and how many aren't.)

The millions of users who are having no problem you're obviously not gonna hear from.

Why not? Why wouldn't they say anything if they liked the changes? The few people on f!s who seem to like the recent changes have said so.

What do you think a democracy is, dipshit?

Democracy is when every person gets equal weight in voting about decisions - it has to involve processes like polling and shit. Otherwise, no, it's not democracy. Listening to feedback =/= running a democracy.

[(Anonymous)]

Reading comprehension fail on your part. I never said I didn't like fandom. I love fandom. And fandom's entitlement complex is fucking hilarious.

And when the second most popular comm on LJ is ALL ABOUT fandom, I'd say it's pretty damn important

Citation needed.

Why not? Why wouldn't they say anything if they liked the changes? The few people on f!s who seem to like the recent changes have said so.

And I'm sure that isn't all of us. Just the one or two that give enough of a shit to speak up. But since Tech won't do a poll, we'll never know how many people disagree with the move and just aren't saying anything, now will we?

Listening to feedback =/= running a democracy.

Yeah, it actually is. You're just getting the feedback before you do something, not after.

[(Anonymous)]

Citations?

http://www.livejournal.com/ - look at the "Popular communities" chart on the left
http://www.livejournal.com/ratings/community/?country=noncyr - Chart
http://fandomsecrets.livejournal.com/profile - "2 place in general community rating"

Social capital: 3,050 / http://www.livejournal.com/support/faqbrowse.bml?faqid=359

that's about half of ONTD

that's like half of ONTD moving itself off LJ

I'd think that's at the very least somewhat significant.

[(Anonymous)]

Since when is ONTD "fandom"? It's a fucking troll community. I'll be glad when LJ spotlight isn't sucking their diseased cocks anymore.

[(Anonymous)]

It never was really fandom. The lists are of all the communities on LJ that exist, not all the fandom communities or anything, that's the point. Anon before me wasn't comparing FS to all the other fandom communities on LJ but against ALL the communities that are here

[(Anonymous)]

Except that's ranked solely by unanalyzed pageviews, which in a community like F!S is really not anywhere near a good indication of popularity since the same people check the page multiple times (hence a lot of those pageviews are not unique traffic, just a small group hitting F5 all the time). So no, F!S is not nearly as important as you think.

[(Anonymous)]

No one said ONTD was fandom. They were using it as a reference to gauge the size of f!s (which IS fandom) and saying that if ONTD is important to LJ, then something half its size (with no other communities being as big) is probably still somewhat important.

[(Anonymous)]

ayrt

Okay, you like fandom. I assumed you didn't based on the way you were talking about it, but that was my mistake.

Citation needed.

Another anon beat me to it. :)

Just the one or two that give enough of a shit to speak up.

How do you know that doesn't apply to the other side, as well...?

Yeah, it actually is. You're just getting the feedback before you do something, not after.

Except it's not. Did you miss everything I said about democracy? Like making sure every person has equal input and shit? And also the bit (don't remember if I said this) about people being able to make endless sock puppet accounts to skew the results of a "democratic" decision like a community poll.

[(Anonymous)]

Another anon beat me to it. :)

And cited some hilariously skewed bullshit.

How do you know that doesn't apply to the other side, as well...?

Because you're more likely to hear from whiny bitches than people who are satisfied.

Did you miss everything I said about democracy?

No, I didn't. My point still stands; the only difference is the order of action and feedback. Of course you're going to call sockpuppeting if you don't like the poll results, because that'd be the only objection you'd have left. But as Tech doesn't give enough of a shit to poll us in the first place, the point is kind of moot. Point is, if you're going to bitch at LJ for not listening to feedback, mods shouldn't get a free pass for not even giving community members the chance to give any feedback before doing something drastic.

[(Anonymous)]

And cited some hilariously skewed bullshit.

I followed that thread up there and I'm not sure what would satisfy you if that didn't. There is no way to prove what the most popular comms on LJ are (because you'd have to define what you mean by "popular"), but there are some pretty good ways to make a guess.

Because you're more likely to hear from whiny bitches than people who are satisfied.

Funny how many people who are satisfied with this present decision are speaking up on this thread. Huh.

Of course you're going to call sockpuppeting if you don't like the poll results

Or if, you know, I think it might actually be a thing? jsyk, I wasn't around for the last poll, and I don't know how I would have voted nor was I direct witness to the results and ensuing discussion.

But as Tech doesn't give enough of a shit to poll us in the first place

Okay, do you really, honest and truly think that is the reason he isn't doing it? Because he "doesn't give a shit"?